# Complete Guitar Control **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 13, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496 "2010-07-13T04:07:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/1 "2010-07-13T04:07:38Z")
Steve Vai is in complete control of his instrument, and is an amazing guitar player. You have to admit it. Instrumental wankery may not be your cup of tea, but you have to admit his mastery. I propose that he is a modern-era Hendrix. Is there another guitarist that fits that billing? Please watch all the way through. This is not some technical accomplishment more than it is a supreme musical manipulation of sound processing technology. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8KUSkGeaUPU/hqdefault.jpg "Steve Vai - "Whispering A Prayer" (Live At The Astoria)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KUSkGeaUPU) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/2 "2010-07-13T14:05:05Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Steve Vai is in complete control of his instrument, and is an amazing guitar player. You have to admit it. Instrumental wankery may not be your cup of tea, but you have to admit his mastery. > > I propose that he is a modern-era Hendrix. Is there another guitarist that fits that billing? > > Please watch all the way through. This is not some technical accomplishment more than it is a supreme musical manipulation of sound processing technology. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KUSkGeaUPU](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KUSkGeaUPU) He is a guitar master - one of the most technically proficient players out there. But he’s no Hendrix. Not even close. Hendrix had songs. ---
**Author:** ![DfrntBreign](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@DfrntBreign](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DfrntBreign)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/3 "2010-07-13T15:19:18Z")
Steve has songs! [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKivHjIcya4](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKivHjIcya4) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/4 "2010-07-13T15:24:37Z")
Vai is a technical virtuoso, but has never been a good songwriter. The same is true of Yngwie. Eddie Van Halen hasn’t done much lately, but he’s a guy who has complete mastery of the instrument AND he can compose real songs. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/5 "2010-07-13T15:35:16Z")
Steve Vai’s playing is a supreme musical manipulation of sound processing technology in the same way that Transformers is a supreme manipulation of video processing technology. There are a lot of parts that are technically impressive but overall it’s just not very good. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/6 "2010-07-13T15:36:01Z")
[The late Michael Hedges](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaIN13aDbCc) beats them all. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/7 "2010-07-13T17:12:32Z")
I’d rather listen to one song’s worth of playing by Paul Weller, Johnny Marr or Norman Westberg than the entire combined output of Vai, Malmsteen or anyone like them. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/8 "2010-07-13T17:17:11Z")
That Hedges guy was quite pleasant, though. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/9 "2010-07-13T17:21:41Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > He is a guitar master - one of the most technically proficient players out there. But he’s no Hendrix. Not even close. Hendrix had songs. 😃 Well, yeah. But I meant that comparison to mean more about how completely in control of the guitar they both are (were), that they are guitar gods that stride the Earth amongst us mere mortal geetar pickers and that they literally can play anything they want to. Vai has other examples on the internet that are vastly superior to the one I presented here from a technical standpoint, but I chose this one because of the profuse and obscene manipulation of feedback and the tremolo bar that he exhibits here (which is where the Hendrix comparison was originally founded, because Jimi was profoundly good at those things too). I often wonder what kind of weird music Hendrix would be making were he alive today and the beneficiary of modern technology. He was pushing the envelope back then as it was. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/10 "2010-07-13T17:23:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’d rather listen to one song’s worth of playing by Paul Weller, Johnny Marr or Norman Westberg than the entire combined output of Vai, Malmsteen or anyone like them. Johnny Marr is the technical equivalent of Yngwie or Vai, just in a completely different approach to the guitar. They shred; he uses a complex thumbpick + fingers approach + partial chords to create sonic landscapes in support of his band’s songs. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/11 "2010-07-13T17:26:18Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > That Hedges guy was quite pleasant, though. Hedges was awesome…completely different style than guys like Vai, obviously. Are there any other modern-era big name players that use the two-handed technique like in the Hedges video besides Stanley Jordan? Stanley Jordan breaks the rules, plays “Stairway”!!: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8A\_IP5YB2g](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8A_IP5YB2g) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/12 "2010-07-13T17:27:45Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > 😃 > Well, yeah. But I meant that comparison to mean more about how completely in control of the guitar they both are (were), that they are guitar gods that stride the Earth amongst us mere mortal geetar pickers and that they literally can play anything they want to. > > Vai has other examples on the internet that are vastly superior to the one I presented here from a technical standpoint, but I chose this one because of the profuse and obscene manipulation of feedback and the tremolo bar that he exhibits here (which is where the Hendrix comparison was originally founded, because Jimi was profoundly good at those things too). > > I often wonder what kind of weird music Hendrix would be making were he alive today and the beneficiary of modern technology. He was pushing the envelope back then as it was. Yeah, I get that. It’s all good and again, Vai is a freakin’ master. From that standpoint, as I have said before on the Dope, in a lot of ways, Hendrix was NOT a master. Very sloppy player. Jeez, listen to his intro on Voodoo Chile (Slight Return) vs. Stevie Ray’s - SRV nails the timing of the notes and wah much more cleanly and crisply. But it’s Jimi’s song and he created that lick ;). IMHO, that’s a key differences between the Vai’s and the Hendrix types - Vai gets the sound perfect; Hendrix hears the songs in there and uses the effects and volume, etc., to deliver the songs. So if Jimi were alive today, I suspect he’d be using today’s tech to do the same thing. He would have slop in it - I could totally seem him uploading his latest jam session with amazing friends up to Youtube… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/13 "2010-07-13T17:29:17Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Hedges was awesome…completely different style than guys like Vai, obviously. Are there any other modern-era big name players that use the two-handed technique like in the Hedges video besides Stanley Jordan? > > Stanley Jordan breaks the rules, plays “Stairway”!!: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8A\_IP5YB2g](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8A_IP5YB2g) Many - \*\*Kaki King \*\*is the current hot buzz two-handed tapper, but there are dozens of others. Hedges was special - I would equate him with Hendrix in that he used his innovative approaches in service to interesting songs. Most of the other tappers come up with fancy tunings that sound interesting at first, but ultimately all blend into each other… ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/14 "2010-07-13T17:32:22Z")
Eric Johnson, Cliffs of Dover [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6833529017668510290#](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6833529017668510290#) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/15 "2010-07-13T17:52:50Z")
> [@ghardester](#): > > Eric Johnson, Cliffs of Dover > > [http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6833529017668510290#](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6833529017668510290#) One of the best tones in all of guitardom. He’s not a two-hander though. Unless of course you’re posting it because its just awesome! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/16 "2010-07-13T18:10:31Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Johnny Marr is the technical equivalent of Yngwie or Vai, just in a completely different approach to the guitar. They shred; he uses a complex thumbpick + fingers approach + partial chords to create sonic landscapes in support of his band’s songs. You missed the point completely… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/17 "2010-07-13T18:18:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You missed the point completely… No I didn’t - you were saying that you would rather hear guitarists with quality songs vs. techno-shredders. I agree, as I stated in Post #2 above. I only want to make the point that Marr, unlike Weller (never heard of your third guy) actually _IS_ as good as Yngwie and Vai, in his way, but applies his mastery in service to great songs. IMHO, that is often a problem with the type of mastery that Vai and Yngwie epitomize - it feels like it is best featured _on top of_ a song, not as part of a song’s fabric. Marr’s technical mastery - and again, he is every bit of a master as those shredders - is much, much better suited to being woven into song…same with Andy Summers or even Eddie Van Halen, who can shred that way, but also includes a lot of partial-chord rhythm work and an emphasis on pop melody… ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/18 "2010-07-13T18:19:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You missed the point completely… Maybe you could explain your point for us idiots. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/19 "2010-07-13T18:55:29Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > No I didn’t - you were saying that you would rather hear guitarists with quality songs vs. techno-shredders. OK, that was it. Sorry, it looked like you were focussing on technical details. And I’d say Weller was as good a guitarist as Marr _in his genre_, as Westberg (guitarist for Swans) was in his. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496/20 "2010-07-13T19:06:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > OK, that was it. Sorry, it looked like you were focussing on technical details. And I’d say Weller was as good a guitarist as Marr _in his genre_, as Westberg (guitarist for Swans) was in his. That’s cool. But do you play? Don’t get me wrong, Paul Weller is an EXCELLENT songwriter and musician and a really good guitarist, but he is not even close to Marr, Vai or Malmsteen as a technician. I think even \*\*An Arky \*\*- a Ric-playing, Jam / Weller nut of a Doper, would agree with me here… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/complete-guitar-control/546496.md?page=2)