# compulsory "Equality" form- fuck you, I don't fit in your boxes! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 17, 2005, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040 "2005-12-17T09:43:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/1 "2005-12-17T09:43:47Z")
I’m planning to move back to Northern Ireland next year, so have been applying for jobs. Because of “the Troubles” everyone applying for a job has to fill out a form telling them your religious and ethnic background. This is supposed to be for statistical use and to prevent discrimination. You used to be able to tick boxes with " I do not want to answer this question", but now an answer is mandatory. I’m pissed off, and here’s why. I don’t fit in the boxes, this information doesn’t accurately represent me as a person, and adds nothing to the statistical validity of this form. I also think it is none of their business and I would never answer these type of questions if given the choice. For the religion question there are two parts. The first part is thus: _Tick all that apply I am from a Protestant background I am from a Catholic background I am from neither a Protestant nor a Catholic background_ Now, my mother is half Catholic and half Jewish and my father is Protestant, but our political ideals are Nationalist. They can’t ask political affiliation, so they substitute religious persuasion- only, as you can see, in my case it’s not exactly going to be accurate, as I’m going to have to tick all the boxes for this question! The second part of the religion question gives a list of Christian denominations, non-christian religions, and “Atheist/Agnostic” box and an “Other” with a blank space. Again, this is just to break down the demographics and help them to clarify the information from the first question, or so they think. So, let’s see, I was baptised in the Church of Ireland, married in a Presbyterian Church and currently attend a non-denominational church in Dublin. So that’s three more boxes to tick. Rest assured, there will also be people who have never darkened the doorway of a church who will be ticking “Catholic” or “Baptist” or whatever, because their great-grandparents used to go there. Again, this information is bogus and doesn’t actually clarify anything it is supposed to. Now we get to the ethnicity part: _Tick all that apply White Black African Black Other Asian South East Asian Irish Traveller Mixed race\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ Other\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\__ Oky dokey, this bit isn’t exactly easy for me either. I’m white-ish, that is my grandmother is possiby mixed race (Cape Malay or Cape Coloured from South Africa) and my Jewish grandfather’s family was half Sephardi (from North Africa) and half Ashkenazi (from Eastern Russia). Anyone who has seen my wedding photos will remember that my mother, sisters and I aren’t exactly Irish looking, and all of us have dealt with racist abuse at some point. I’m thinking of ticking “Mixed race” and writing “don’t know which”! I know that for most people this form is easy, quick and their answers are representative of who they are, it’s just that in some cases (like mine) it’s not, and yet I still have to fill the stupid thing in. I am full of Grr. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 10:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/2 "2005-12-17T10:34:32Z")
BTW, we should clarify that, in Ireland, “Traveller” means what most Americans will better understand as “Gypsie”, or even better “Rom”. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/3 "2005-12-17T10:36:06Z")
And I totally agree with you, that forcing anyone to identify themself with predetermined categories is misleading and perpetuates the problems they are suppodesly trying to redress. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/4 "2005-12-17T13:23:12Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > BTW, we should clarify that, in Ireland, “Traveller” means what most Americans will better understand as “Gypsie”, or even better “Rom”. This isn’t very accurate. Travellers are a completely seperate ethnicity and speak a different language from Rom. To the O.P. - I feel for you, I really hate fillling those types of things out too. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/5 "2005-12-17T16:22:15Z")
A separate “ethnicity?” So much so that it’s listed under the “racial” section? Wow, I really had no idea that Travellers were that different, other than some language and lifestyle differences. Are they included there because of increased violence against them, at an almost “racial-hatred” level? ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/6 "2005-12-17T16:24:13Z")
Oh wait… I forogt to clarify that I meant “Travellers are that different from white?” ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/7 "2005-12-17T16:32:09Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > A separate “ethnicity?” So much so that it’s listed under the “racial” section? Wow, I really had no idea that Travellers were that different, other than some language and lifestyle differences. > > Are they included there because of increased violence against them, at an almost “racial-hatred” level? Yes to all this. ‘Gypsy’ has a legal definition in the UK which covers Roma, Irish travellers, and all other travelling communities. And yes, they’re frequently subjected to discrimination and racism. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/8 "2005-12-17T16:55:02Z")
This is a complete hijack, but I’m struck with how many threads recently have discussed the Travellers. This is the third one I can remember in the last month or so. Anyone else notice this? Anyway, as to the OP – well, I kind of sympathize. Plenty of people fall between the cracks in the definitions, and you seem to be one of them. That said, I can understand the official need, particularly in countries that have a history of discrimination, to have some decent sense of the demographic landscape. If you’re going to provide any redress, you want to know just how big the problem is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/9 "2005-12-17T17:06:12Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > A separate “ethnicity?” So much so that it’s listed under the “racial” section? Wow, I really had no idea that Travellers were that different, other than some language and lifestyle differences. > > Are they included there because of increased violence against them, at an almost “racial-hatred” level? [Irish Travellers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Travellers) are ethnically Irish-- they are indiginous to Ireland. They are not **Roma**. The Roma originated in India. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/10 "2005-12-17T17:21:59Z")
> [@Sal Ammoniac](#): > > That said, I can understand the official need, particularly in countries that have a history of discrimination, to have some decent sense of the demographic landscape. If you’re going to provide any redress, you want to know just how big the problem is. However, what if the citizen doesn’t trust the authorities to “just want to know”? In the USA last time I checked, the affirmative action questionnaire in employment/matriculation forms is optional, or at least you can mark “other” w/o having necessarily to elaborate (and in many [most?] cases, you can’t be asked to fill it until _after_ an employment/admission offer has been made). ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/11 "2005-12-17T17:24:23Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > However, what if the citizen doesn’t trust the authorities to “just want to know”? Good point. There is some trust involved, and for that reason, there should be an opt-out. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/12 "2005-12-17T17:33:06Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > However, what if the citizen doesn’t trust the authorities to “just want to know”? The situation described by the OP has to be seen in the context of the peace process. Many people would say that the authorities not only _want_ to have data about people’s backgrounds, but _need_ to know it to redress all sorts of problems. I do, however, agree that the wording of the example is particularly poor. “I am from neither a Protestant nor a Catholic background, or I am from multiple backgrounds” seems to me a better way to cover all options. FWIW, this implementation of such surveys is unique to N Ireland - the rest of the UK has optional ones about ethnicity, including an ‘other’ option, and don’t touch on religion. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/13 "2005-12-17T18:05:47Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > BTW, we should clarify that, in Ireland, “Traveller” means what most Americans will better understand as “Gypsie”, or even better “Rom”. We’ve got Irish Travellers here in the United States and they don’t have a very good reputation here either. At least for those who even know they exist. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/14 "2005-12-17T18:29:13Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > Oh wait… I forogt to clarify that I meant “Travellers are that different from white?” The questionaire says “Tick all that apply”, meaning they anticipate that several categories might be applicable, not that they’re all mutually exclusive. Personally, unless there was some kind of penalty involved, I’d just lie and pick the most generic answers I could. What business is it of theirs, anyway? I’m a white non-practicing Protestant/Catholic/whatever. Try to prove otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/15 "2005-12-17T18:34:08Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > For the religion question there are two parts. The first part is thus: > > _Tick all that apply > I am from a Protestant background > I am from a Catholic background > I am from neither a Protestant nor a Catholic background_ > > Now, my mother is half Catholic and half Jewish and my father is Protestant, but our political ideals are Nationalist. They can’t ask political affiliation, so they substitute religious persuasion- only, as you can see, in my case it’s not exactly going to be accurate, as I’m going to have to tick all the boxes for this question! Add a box! ---
**Author:** ![Tevildo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Tevildo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tevildo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/16 "2005-12-17T19:44:40Z")
Not that I should be proud of it, but I’m one of the many people who put “English” as a write-in race on the '01 census. If Irish and Scots are races rather than nationalities, why the fuck can’t English be one? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/17 "2005-12-17T19:55:28Z")
> [@Tevildo](#): > > Not that I should be proud of it, but I’m one of the many people who put “English” as a write-in race on the '01 census. If Irish and Scots are races rather than nationalities, why the fuck can’t English be one? Errrr…Scottish wasn’t an option on the 2001 census. The options included “white British” and “white Irish”. ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/18 "2005-12-17T20:46:22Z")
On all of these types of questionnaires I choose “Other” for race and write in “Human”. I’ve never had a question about religion, but if faced with it I’d write in something similarly generic. The only criteria I feel I should be weighed in employment are my qualifications and work history. After hire, only my performance should matter. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/19 "2005-12-17T21:14:05Z")
> [@Rhubarb](#): > > The only criteria I feel I should be weighed in employment are my qualifications and work history. After hire, only my performance should matter. In the UK (and I’m fairly sure it’s true even in N Ireland), such forms are completely separate from the actual recruitment process. They’re not used for affirmative action or any quota system, but used to retrospectively monitor the statistics arising from appointments. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2005, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040/20 "2005-12-17T21:38:44Z")
You might not like these forms but you do fit into those boxes. X I am from a Protestant background X I am from a Catholic background I am from neither a Protestant nor a Catholic background The 3rd one does not apply to you. These boxes are for people who have no Protestant and/or Catholic backround. Tick all that apply X White - Black African Black Other Asian South East Asian Irish Traveller X Mixed race _some unknown \*\* Other_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ \*If those African people are black \*\* Add other known ‘races’ that apply [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-equality-form-fuck-you-i-dont-fit-in-your-boxes/336040.md?page=2)