# Compulsory Organ Donation **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2001, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286 "2001-02-06T00:22:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2001, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/21 "2001-02-06T10:08:06Z")
IIRC France has an opt-out policy. i.e. it is assumed that all organs are available for transplant unless you have specifically expressed an objection. From what I understand from a friend who worked in a renal care unit, kidney patients in France have a far far greater chance of a timely transplant than in the UK. The current newsworthy situation in the UK is not about organs for transplant, which requires explicit permission from next of kin, but for ‘research’ purposes. If it were open and honest I would support the introduction of a system along the same lines as the French. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2001, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/22 "2001-02-06T16:43:02Z")
What about the people declared dead that wake up? I don’t think its a good idea to kill them and you would have to harvest the organs right away. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2001, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/23 "2001-02-06T17:40:12Z")
I don’t have a cite handy…but I recall that states without motorcycle helmet laws tend to produce more suitable donors…Typical fatalities are often otherwise healthy individuals…with healthy organs … For those interested in the topic of organ donation (including the science and public policy aspects) I suggest the book Many Sleepless Nights ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/24 "2001-02-06T18:08:06Z")
North America is acting (IMO)in an overly-cautious, hesitant way regarding organ donation. We’re in a society that does transplants of other people’s organs on a regular basis - it is a well-established medical treatment that is required by far more people than can be helped. I think we’re at the point where it’s time to make some decisions and commitments to move ahead with organ donations and stop skirting around the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2001, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/25 "2001-02-06T18:47:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by featherlou \* > \*\*North America is acting (IMO)in an overly-cautious, hesitant way regarding organ donation. We’re in a society that does transplants of other people’s organs on a regular basis - it is a well-established medical treatment that is required by far more people than can be helped. I think we’re at the point where it’s time to make some decisions and commitments to move ahead with organ donations and stop skirting around the issue. \*\* Who’s skirting around the issue? Some of us just don’t feel that society is automatically entitled to our organs after death. Marc ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2001, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/26 "2001-02-06T20:19:35Z")
**Marc** I hear ya. You and I are two peas in a pod on this issue. Its bad enough they take half my estate at death, now they want my guts too? Gee, guys, forget marxism. Too much trouble to have people think like you when you can just harvest us after death. ---
**Author:** ![Holly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/48db29/32.png) [@Holly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Holly)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2001, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/27 "2001-02-06T22:28:35Z")
**beagledave:** > [@](#): > > I don’t have a cite handy…but I recall that states without motorcycle helmet laws tend to produce more suitable donors…Typical fatalities are often otherwise healthy individuals…with healthy organs … That’s why we call them “donorcycles”. 😉 **friedo:** > [@](#): > > That, and most dead people died because they are old or have a disease. That probably makes many of their organs useless anyway. This is sort of true, but even elderly people can contribute important tissues. Skin goes to the skin bank to help people who have large burns. Bone goes to the bone bank, corneas to the eye bank, etc. People who die of infectious diseases are normally excluded from donating. However, even people with certain diseases can donate. For example, many donors have hepatitis (you wouldn’t believe how many people have hepatitis and don’t know it- it’s pretty scary) and so you’d think their organs would be useless. The organ shortage is so severe, though, that confronted with a certain and immediate death, people will opt to receive a hepatitis-infected organ instead in the hope that it will buy them just a little time. The best option is to assume everyone’s a donor but give everyone the option of refusing to donate for any or no reason. People should never be forced to be donors. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2001, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/28 "2001-02-06T22:49:28Z")
Baloo wrote: > [@](#): > > _Suppresses urge to quote, at length, a scene from Monty Python’s “The Meaning of Life”._ I say, to hell with suppression! “Can we have your liver?” ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/29 "2001-02-07T02:15:40Z")
**Redboss** : I’m only ageist in that I would give them to the people who would get the most good out of them. A 20-year-old would get a damn sight more use out of them than would a 50-year-old. Of course, that comes with qualifications. A 20-year-old gang member shot in the heart by a psycho would get much less out of an organ than would a 50-year-old CEO who used to booze it up. **DoctorJ** : It’s good to know such rules exist. But medical history might not be a deciding factor if I could choose. An abusive parent would not get my organs. A convicted felon would not get my organs, either. That might sound cruel. That might sound cold. That might sound like I wouldn’t even have a heart to donate. The fact remains, though: Nobody has a right to my body or the contents thereof. If I choose to render my body unusable by self-immolation that is my business. What would happen to that right if the government decided it could take organs from any corpse that turned up? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/30 "2001-02-07T17:38:17Z")
Not to be obnoxious, but a lot of people (IRL as well as on the Boards) feel quite strongly against measures to make more organs available, but I get the feeling that most of the people taking this position would be more than happy to take a donated organ if they needed it. I’m having a hard time understanding this attitude; where do people think the organs they need are coming from, if nobody wants to donate their own upon dying? Is it just the idea of having donation assumed upon death that people have a problem with? ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/31 "2001-02-07T18:25:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by featherlou \* > \*\*Not to be obnoxious, but a lot of people (IRL as well as on the Boards) feel quite strongly against measures to make more organs available, but I get the feeling that most of the people taking this position would be more than happy to take a donated organ if they needed it. I’m having a hard time understanding this attitude; where do people think the organs they need are coming from, if nobody wants to donate their own upon dying? Is it just the idea of having donation assumed upon death that people have a problem with? \*\* I love the way you play with words. “…a lot of people (IRL as well as on the Boards) feel quite strongly against measures to make more organs available…” What we’ve been specifically discussing here is making everyone mandatory organ donors. Nobody here came out against any other possible measures to increase the number of organ donation. Nor did anyone here come out against organ transplants in general. Perhaps a campaign of awareness through education would encourage more people to donate? I would take an organ if I needed it to save my life. I have nothing against organ donation and I’ve told my family that I’m happy to donate. But the choice was mine and doesn’t belong to you, some guy at the state capital, or some person in Washington D.C. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Crunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Chief\_Crunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Crunch)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/32 "2001-02-07T21:25:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Holly \* > \*\* > However, if we assumed everyone was a donor _unless_ they declared otherwise, everyone would win. Those who prefer not to donate for whatever reason (or for no reason) would be free to decline. The organ shortage would disappear. > > This has been tried successfully in Denmark. \*\* This is a great idea we should implement across the board. I can imagine answering my door to see a pizza delivery guy wielding a large sausage and pepperoni pie and an order of crazy bread. “But, I didn’t order any of this.” I protest. “Yes,” replies the delivery boy. “But you simply didn’t declare _otherwise_!” How about we just _assume_ that I don’t want anything done with my organs when I die? What about all the people who don’t know that they’re an “automatic” donor? Right, who cares about their personal, spiritual or religious beliefs? As long as Mantle gets that liver he’s been aching for. The Man’s an American hero. ---
**Author:** ![McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19adc/32.png) [@McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/33 "2001-02-07T21:50:26Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Chief Crunch_ > who cares about their personal, spiritual or religious beliefs? I’m curious, are there _any_ religions or denominations or sects or cults or _anything_ which are actually against organ donation? ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Crunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Chief\_Crunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Crunch)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/34 "2001-02-07T23:08:01Z")
[http://www.transweb.org/qa/qa\_txp/faq\_religion.html](http://www.transweb.org/qa/qa_txp/faq_religion.html) See Gypsies and Shinto. Also, the Amish only approve if there is a definite indication that the health of the recipient would improve. ---
**Author:** ![Holly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/48db29/32.png) [@Holly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Holly)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2001, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/35 "2001-02-07T23:33:14Z")
Chief Crunch: > [@](#): > > How about we just assume that I don’t want anything done with my organs when I die? What about all the people who don’t know that they’re an “automatic” donor? Right, who cares about their personal, spiritual or religious beliefs? How about people right now who want to be donors, have signed the backs of their driver’s licenses, and naively assume that this makes them donors because they don’t know that every family member must specifically agree to donate and if one cousin or great-aunt is a little grossed out by the idea and refuses to consent the organs will go to the grave and rot rather than be used as the attempted donors wished? Something will happen to your organs when you die. Either they’ll be used to save others, or they’ll rot. I believe the disposal of your body should always be your personal choice. Anyone who has a personal, spiritual, or religious aversion to donation should be free to refuse. It wouldn’t take much to educate people on the subject and to make a simple, “no, I don’t want to donate my organs” card readily available. In addition, I’m sure that if someone who had religious or other reasons to refuse donation but hadn’t signed a card saying so, it would be pretty easy for a family member to speak up and let your beliefs be known. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Crunch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e8c25b/32.png) [@Chief\_Crunch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Crunch)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/36 "2001-02-08T00:39:02Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Holly \* > \*\* > How about people right now who want to be donors, have signed the backs of their driver’s licenses, and naively assume that this makes them donors because they don’t know that every family member must specifically agree to donate and if one cousin or great-aunt is a little grossed out by the idea and refuses to consent the organs will go to the grave and rot rather than be used as the attempted donors wished?_\* It takes **one** family member to sign a consent form for organ donation and that’s only in certain states. Do you have a cite for a case were this has actually happened? > [@](#): > > \*\* > In addition, I’m sure that if someone who had religious or other reasons to refuse donation but hadn’t signed a card saying so, it would be pretty easy for a family member to speak up and let your beliefs be known.\*\* And if there was no family member? It’s hard to debate any “personal liberty” versus “saving lives” argument without sounding callous, but if a person wants to donate his or her organs, he or she can go take the necessary steps to ensure it happens. A person who _doesn’t_ want to, shouldn’t have to be made to take special measures. You’re free to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![Holly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/48db29/32.png) [@Holly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Holly)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/37 "2001-02-08T06:42:02Z")
Chief Crunch: > [@](#): > > It takes one family member to sign a consent form for organ donation and that’s only in certain states. Do you have a cite for a case were this has actually happened? I don’t have a cite, just personal experience. I’ve dealt several times with people who had signed donor cards and even expressed aloud to family members that they’d like to donate. Then when they were declared brain dead, the family (sometimes just one family member) refused, so donation was out of the question. I live in Texas, if that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/38 "2001-02-08T18:20:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MGibson \* > I love the way you play with words. “…a lot of people (IRL as well as on the Boards) feel quite strongly against measures to make more organs available…” What we’ve been specifically discussing here is making everyone mandatory organ donors. Nobody here came out against any other possible measures to increase the number of organ donation. Nor did anyone here come out against organ transplants in general. Perhaps a campaign of awareness through education would encourage more people to donate? > > I would take an organ if I needed it to save my life. I have nothing against organ donation and I’ve told my family that I’m happy to donate. But the choice was mine and doesn’t belong to you, some guy at the state capital, or some person in Washington D.C. > > Marc \*\* I realize that we are debating mandatory organ donation; I was also assuming that the mandatory donation we’re talking about included an opt-out clause, and this is the type of measures I was talking about. For some people, the opt-out clause doesn’t seem to be enough for them to support the proposed mandatory donation. The point I was trying to make was that things are not working well as they are, as evidenced by the long waiting lists for transplants, and while people were rejecting the mandatory donation idea (which included the opt-out clause), I didn’t see a lot of other suggestions to make the donation plans work better. Your idea of public awareness campaigns is a good one; maybe health officials need to look at the root of the problem, and address the reasons why more people don’t feel comfortable declaring themselves organ donors. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/39 "2001-02-08T18:46:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*\*Originally posted by featherlou \* > \*\* I realize that we are debating mandatory organ donation; I was also assuming that the mandatory donation we’re talking about included an opt-out clause, and this is the type of measures I was talking about. For some people, the opt-out clause doesn’t seem to be enough for them to support the proposed mandatory donation. [/quote] \*\* You’re right, an opt out clause isn’t enough for me. If I choose to donate then **I** will take the necessary steps to ensure that it happens. Mandatory donation just isn’t something I think the government needs to make a law about. > [@](#): > > \*\* > The point I was trying to make was that things are not working well as they are, as evidenced by the long waiting lists for transplants, and while people were rejecting the mandatory donation idea (which included the opt-out clause), I didn’t see a lot of other suggestions to make the donation plans work better. \*\* Well that’s because this topic is focused on mandatory donation not on other programs. And actually I fail to see what’s wrong with organ transplants the way they are. If a person suddenly dies who’s to say any of their vital organs will be donated to anyone? My father had an unexpected heart attack but because they had to perform an autopsy they couldn’t get rid of his organs. At best they got to use some skin and his corneas. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Your idea of public awareness campaigns is a good one; maybe health officials need to look at the root of the problem, and address the reasons why more people don’t feel comfortable declaring themselves organ donors. \*\* A lot of people just don’t want to think about their own death. Some people might not trust the medical community to be tempted to work a little less on someone who has some spare parts they need. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2001, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286/40 "2001-02-08T19:03:13Z")
> [@](#): > > And actually I fail to see what’s wrong with organ transplants the way they are. My brother is waiting for a kidney/liver transplant. His disease is entirely genetic, and has nothing to do with behavioral choices or anything else he can control. The doctors estimate a liver will probably come available eight months to a year after he dies. That seems pretty wrong right there. > [@](#): > > Some people might not trust the medical community to be tempted to work a little less on someone who has some spare parts they need. Some people put tinfoil on the windows to keep out the alien mind-control rays. What’s your point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/compulsory-organ-donation/53286.md?page=3)