# Computer and Video games with downer endings (spoilers of course) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 17, 2002, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487 "2002-06-17T07:16:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/21 "2002-06-17T16:19:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tengu \* > \*\* > > Hmm…::Thinkiethink:: OK, not having finished the game yet, 1 is obvious, and I’m pretty sure I know who the other is. (Thus figuring out your triumvirate (if I’m right).) But I disagree that those three are THE main characters. The others - particularly Rikku - have as important a part to play as these 3. IMO. Actually, no, Khimari, I can agree with relegating to secondary. The other 3, though…hell, 2 get a subplot of their own that’s actually played out on screen, and completely independant of the holy triumvirate.\*\* [spoiler]Based on what you said, I’m gonna guess that you haven’t been up Mt. Gagazet yet. If I’m wrong, correct me. Anyway, once you get to Zanarkand, it becomes pretty obvious that Auron is as central as Tidus or Yuna–in fact, you could make a case that he is the central character of FFX, the romantic aspects of Tidus and Yuna notwithstanding. In fact, the more I think about it, the more inclined I am to agree with this. Remember, cycles are at the heart of FFX (Spira -\> spiral, yes?), and Auron was involved the last time Sin was defeated. While the other four characters are definitely important to the plot, they aren’t as important as the main three. And while Kimahri may not seem important, he played a major role in events that happened before Tidus came to Spira.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/22 "2002-06-17T16:23:15Z")
The main character you play ends up dying at the end of the game. And to top it all off of the two humans who manage to escape the ship one of them harbors the artifical intelligence SHODAN who you’ve gone through all the trouble of destroying. Marc ☹ I really wish they’d come out with another System Shock game. ---
**Author:** ![Silentgoldfish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@Silentgoldfish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silentgoldfish)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/23 "2002-06-17T16:31:30Z")
They still might make another, just not anytime soon. I don’t remember the main character dying… the bit with SHODAN was a real aw crap moment though, 'specially as I’d been following Tommy and Rebecca’s escape throughout the game. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/24 "2002-06-17T16:40:38Z")
King Quest VII- If you don’t give the extra life to the Prince (you have some seconds to do it), his soul leaves his body and he’s dead for sure. Instead of a happy ending movie with the Prince asking Rosella to marry him, you get Titania and Oberon saying to Rosella and Valanice that they will send them back home, and the carriage is a black swan… ---
**Author:** ![Second\_Echo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Second\_Echo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Second_Echo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/25 "2002-06-17T18:30:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hamish \* > \*\*As for the OP, I liked **Torment** ’s endings. Torment had the most original premise of any video game ever produced in North America – you have to get your immortal character to die. > > Incidently, not all of the endings send you to hell. If you have a very high Wisdom, you can _unmake_ your mortality. There’s no ending-movie for it, but you ascend to a higher plane. \*\* Never played **Torment** , but the premise of an immortal character fighting for th right to die was used nearly a decade ago in an obscure Sega Genesis platformer called **Chakan: The Forever Man**. I only remember the game because of the great setup. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/26 "2002-06-17T20:35:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SPOOFE \* > \*\* > Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers. There are two endings (that I found). One results in you - the title character - being killed by, and with, his love. The “happier” ending results in your lady love being killed, no matter how you try to save her. > \*\* True, but it wasn’t meant to be. He was a hunter of evil and she was pocessed by an evil spirit and the leader of a huge crime syndicate. As sad as it was, the greater good was served. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/27 "2002-06-17T20:49:39Z")
I don’t remember the details, but the Super Nintendo beat-'em-up game **NinjaWarriors Return** end with your character overthrowing the bad guys … only to see the folks you helped return to power eventually become just as corrupt and evil in their place. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/28 "2002-06-17T20:54:16Z")
Classic old game for the old black-and-white Macintosh: Beyond Dark Castle. At the end of the last level, you face the Dark Knight. If you defeat him, your character is then transformed into the new Dark Knight. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/29 "2002-06-17T21:00:36Z")
> [@](#): > > And speaking of the Final Fantasy series, FFX had a major downer ending. Two of the three main characters are no longer around afterwards, even though a large part of the plot consists of the efforts to keep one of them with the surviving character. FFX _was_ a downer. But I’m really glad Square had the balls to do it. I figured out what was going to happen, and I was really, really hoping that Square would follow through with it. I was so _angry_ at the end of FFVII—we played all that time and that’s what we get? That was the big pay-off? It made me so angry that I won’t replay it (I replay every game, I love replay). BTW, both Chrono Cross and Chrono Trigger have multiple endings–some better than others. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/30 "2002-06-17T22:52:22Z")
> [@](#): > > Half-life: You get a choice. You can either join the mysterious man in the suit and therefore become one of the “bad guys”. or you can refuse to join and be teleported, weaponless, into the middle of an army of monsters. The expansion (Opposing Force) was worse. You don’t even get a choice. You defeat the bad guys (the end boss was pretty cool, although anti-climactic), and then you’re left floating out in the interdimensional void for all eternity. Wee. > [@](#): > > True, but it wasn’t meant to be. He was a hunter of evil and she was pocessed by an evil spirit and the leader of a huge crime syndicate. As sad as it was, the greater good was served. Hey, it was still a downer. ---
**Author:** ![Dragonblink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Dragonblink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragonblink)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/31 "2002-06-18T02:35:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by El Elvis Rojo \* > \*\*Diablo. You fight this demon, kill it, then impale yourself in the forehead with it’s spirit stone, making sure that eventually, this fucking being of pure evil is eventually going to possess what is potentially the most powerful fighter in the world. Way to go, chum. \*\* Actually, the whole _Diablo_ series has a sense of Pyrrhic victories. Not only does the hero of the first game harbor, and eventually lose himself to, Diablo, but at the end of _Diablo 2_ you’ve killed two of the brothers, Mephisto and Diablo, and allowed the third to escape. You finally nail him in the expansion set _Lord of Destruction_, but even then the Worldstone has been corrupted and must be destroyed, and the fate of Sanctuary is left pretty much up in the air. Tyrael gets some pretty cool music, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DKW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dkw/32/3118_2.png) [@DKW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DKW)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/32 "2002-06-18T02:40:15Z")
Um, lessee… Silent Scope 2 - Not only have the snipers _still_ not worked out their differences, when they go their separate ways, Laura has to pick one right then and there. And that’s it. We never find out if Falcon’s getting back with her, if Jackal’s finally going to relent and accept “legitimate” work, etc. Klonoa - He saves the world he’s sent to, becomes a hero…then is whisked away, never to return. We don’t even have a clue as to why this happens. Riven - After spending an absolute _eternity_ opening pathways and learning the endless minute ins and outs of this world (whoever came up with that asinine number system should be shot), and finally saving Catherine and the Riven people…the entire world of Riven perishes. And you NEVER have any use for ANY of the information you learned EVER AGAIN. Police 911 - The crooks are only arrested, meaning that they’ll live to wreak havoc another day. (“Damn these new politically correct guns!”) Aero Fighters - Utter humiliation, an ungrateful public, a horrible mishap, frustration, pain, or death. Take your pick. Titanic: Adventure Out of Time - If you get _anything_ but the best possible result, Agent Carson dies violently. Plus Europe is now in the grip of evil. Dynasty Warriors - Soon, a multitude of foreign powers will kick the stuffing out of China and carve it up like turkey, so in the end, all these petty internal squabbles don’t amount to a hill of dim sum. …okay, so I’m not a huge fan of downer games. So sue me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/33 "2002-06-18T02:48:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ultrafilter \* > \*\*[spoiler]Based on what you said, I’m gonna guess that you haven’t been up Mt. Gagazet yet. If I’m wrong, correct me. Anyway, once you get to Zanarkand, it becomes pretty obvious that Auron is as central as Tidus or Yuna–in fact, you could make a case that he is the central character of FFX, the romantic aspects of Tidus and Yuna notwithstanding. In fact, the more I think about it, the more inclined I am to agree with this. Remember, cycles are at the heart of FFX (Spira → spiral, yes?), and Auron was involved the last time Sin was defeated. > > While the other four characters are definitely important to the plot, they aren’t as important as the main three. And while Kimahri may not seem important, he played a major role in events that happened before Tidus came to Spira.[/spoiler] \*\* [spoiler]Actually, I’m about to try to enter Sin - for the second time. This damn game has too many ‘no save instakill’ spells. Bad DMing. 😛 Yeah, I know Auron’s every bit as important as Tidus and Yuna. And I can completely understand your selecting them as the Big Three. What I’m disagreeing with is the idea that Wakka, Rikku and Lulu are less import than them. Just a difference of opinion, probably aided by the fact that Lulu and Rikku are my favourite characters in the game (Followed by Yuna and Auron, then Tidus, then Wakka and Khimari.) So, my suspicion that Auron the Unsent was, in fact the other one to go byebye (along with Tidus the Non-existant), was correct, then? Oh - and I don’t think Khimari really was that important just due to his acts before the game opens. His most important act, IMO, was bringing Yuna to…crap…Wakka and Lulu’s town, whatever it was called - but he did that at Auron’s suggestion, and you could easily re-write that bit to make it Auron himself that did it. All IMO, of course.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/34 "2002-06-18T02:55:05Z")
Hey, the fact that the game stands up to this kind of analysis is my favorite part. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![owlofcreamcheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/97f17d/32.png) [@owlofcreamcheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlofcreamcheese)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/35 "2002-06-18T03:17:17Z")
einhander… or… however you spell it. after flying all over everywhere, you do a kamakazi dive into the moon. which solves all the world’s problems. derr… mabey not a good message “crashing planes into important buildings will fix things” ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/36 "2002-06-18T03:59:50Z")
More on **Fallout** : After working your ass off to dig a water chip from the radioactive decayed ruins of another vault, after fighting off bandits and raiders and slavers and eventually defeating an entire army of mutants, after all the misadventures and people you had to kill and let die to save your society - the Overseer decides that you’ve become “corrupted by the outside world” and kicks you out into the desert. Thanks a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/37 "2002-06-18T04:18:00Z")
Wing Commander 1 ends with you in disgrace, doesn’t it? Diablo 2 (before the expansion) ends up with the guy who told the story begging forgiveness from someone who he thought was an angel. Instead its a demon, who kills him. I’m sure I’ll think of more. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/38 "2002-06-18T04:18:04Z")
**Syndicate**. For its time of release, one of the most impressive introduction sequences a computer game has had. A satisfying swath of ultraviolence taking over the entire world, and an astonishingly frustrating usually-final mission (although technically, you didn’t have to hit the Atlantic Accelerator last). And the reward for defeating every other syndicate was…the exact same shot of your control blimp over a cheering crowd welcoming their new overlords, that faded to grey and credits. **System Shock 2** was disappointing primarily because it simply clinched the feeling that they’d really fumbled most of the ending arc to the game. I had never even thought of being disappointed in FFVII, because taking out Sephiroth with omnislash-as-coup-de-grace was so viscerally satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/39 "2002-06-18T04:34:09Z")
Quest For Glory 4 ends with your enemy Ad Avis, killing your other enemy (Katrina) enemy, who repents at the last second to save you. Then, the wizardess Erana sacrifices herself to finally banish an evil demon. God, thats one of the best games ever. Quest For Glory 5 has a bunch of possible endings: You sacrifice yourself, this Frankenstein with a heart of gold sacrifices himself, or one of a few other heros, including the newly resurrected, hugely powerful wizardess (Erana) who you can love, sacrifice themselves. Or, this is my favorite: you can cast a spell which detonates a thermonuclear explosion. I’m not making this up. Hitman 47 ends with you killing a clone army of yourself and your creator (you’re a clone too) and then leaving. Nothing upbeat about it. Phantasmagoria ends with your husband being possessed, and you have to kill him. That game sucked! ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487/40 "2002-06-18T06:13:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rjung \* > \*\*I don’t remember the details, but the Super Nintendo beat-'em-up game **NinjaWarriors Return** end with your character overthrowing the bad guys … only to see the folks you helped return to power eventually become just as corrupt and evil in their place. \*\* Actually, that’s pretty realistic if you look at history, or read _Animal Farm_ by Orwell, which is based off history. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-and-video-games-with-downer-endings-spoilers-of-course/114487.md?page=3)