# Computer crash loses 2 years of Lois Lerner emails **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 14, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759 "2014-06-14T06:51:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/1 "2014-06-14T06:51:37Z")
Unfortunately the IRS has lost up to 2 years of Lois Lerner’s emails. Through some very hard work the IRS has managed to retrieve her internal emails. However, her external emails are now lost. What’s even more unfortunate is that these emails were from the period when she has been accused of targetting Tea Party Groups. [http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/irs-says-it-lost-lois-lerner-emails-tea-party-probe-n131101](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/irs-says-it-lost-lois-lerner-emails-tea-party-probe-n131101) I believe all Govt employees should have to take an IT course of some sort. It would help prevent incidents such as this. I wasn’t sure where to post this. Mods, please move it if this is not the correct forum. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/2 "2014-06-14T07:35:04Z")
The article I saw in Daily Caller ranks this right up there with the 18½ minute erased Nixon tape (widely known at the time as Rosemary’s Boo-Boo). ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2014, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/3 "2014-06-14T14:18:51Z")
Yeah, that looks bad. No doubt about it. Wish they would have included more technical information on how this could have happened. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2014, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/4 "2014-06-15T05:29:24Z")
What I wish more is that the media would consult maybe a single private sector IT professional. The only way this could have happened is if the IRS actually does not use an email server. I’m not actually sure how this would be possible. No company just has emails on a person’s computer. Most likely, they are simply lying. If one freakin’ journalist could just consult their OWN IT department, they’d know this and report it. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2014, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/5 "2014-06-15T06:57:13Z")
Yes, this is highly suspicious. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2014, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/6 "2014-06-15T07:38:28Z")
I’m no right winger but I’ll agree this looks very suspicious. Especially because these emails have been the subject of an investigation for over a year but were reportedly lost back in 2011. You’d think somebody at the IRS would have mentioned their loss before now. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/7 "2014-06-16T02:33:33Z")
For those of us playing along at home: who is Lois Lerner? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/8 "2014-06-16T02:38:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No company just has emails on a person’s computer. Seriously? Are you just making these things up? No company, huh? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/9 "2014-06-16T03:10:12Z")
Email doesn’t function that way. That’s like saying that your SDMB posts can be lost if your computer crashes. Email is done through servers. It’s not PC to PC. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/10 "2014-06-16T03:26:21Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Seriously? Are you just making these things up? > No company, huh? He is correct. Corporate emails are stored on a central Exchange (or in some cases Lotus Notes Domino) server. Individuals can ALSO store emails locally on a computer, but destroying those files or even the entire computer doesn’t take them off the central server. And typically those servers are backed up. So even if you erase the emails, there is still some old backup somewhere. As it happened, I spent 6 years in the “collecting email (and other data) off computers” business. “We can’t find the emails for that particular person for the particular dates your are looking for” is Suspicious Behavior 101. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/11 "2014-06-16T03:28:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Email doesn’t function that way. That’s like saying that your SDMB posts can be lost if your computer crashes. > > Email is done through servers. It’s not PC to PC. There’s a setting on my Thunderbird Client that says “Leave messages on server” that I don’t have checked…you’re saying that all my messages are still on my hosting company’s servers? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/12 "2014-06-16T03:32:16Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > He is correct. Corporate emails are stored on a central Exchange (or in some cases Lotus Notes Domino) server. Individuals can ALSO store emails locally on a computer, but destroying those files or even the entire computer doesn’t take them off the central server. > > And typically those servers are backed up. So even if you erase the emails, there is still some old backup somewhere. > > As it happened, I spent 6 years in the “collecting email (and other data) off computers” business. “We can’t find the emails for that particular person for the particular dates your are looking for” is Suspicious Behavior 101. He didn’t say “corporate companies that use exchange servers and have their clients set up in a specific way to leave the emails on the server…” He said “No company just has emails on a person’s computer.” which is undeniably incorrect. I have no dog in this fight, I don’t even know what’s going on in the case, but if adaher is going to make these arguments he can’t just pull facts out of his ass or make blanket statements and assume that they hold true to every single person, business and government entity in the country. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/13 "2014-06-16T03:42:12Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > He didn’t say “corporate companies that use exchange servers and have their clients set up in a specific way to leave the emails on the server…” He said “No company just has emails on a person’s computer.” which is undeniably incorrect. A company can choose to delete emails from the server and then they are still only in the employee’s .pst or .ost file. But there is no PC to PC transmission of emails, at least not since 1995 or so. If the IRS finds preserving emails too challenging, perhaps they should use Yahoo mail. I’ve still got emails on their server from 1998. Or perhaps they could conduct their business on SDMB. I’m sure a private forum can be set up for them. Probably be more secure than what they’ve got now, given how easily confidential taxpayer information seems to leak out of that organization. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/14 "2014-06-16T03:52:06Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > For those of us playing along at home: who is Lois Lerner? A former(?) employee at the IRS. She is under investigation for illegally targetting the tax status of Tea Party groups in the years before the 2012 elections. Lerner has been pleading the 5th in House hearings so far. A day or so ago the IRS said that a computer crash in 2011 had wiped around 18 months of her email records. That her external emails are non recoverable. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/15 "2014-06-16T04:24:30Z")
Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/16 "2014-06-16T15:42:22Z")
I have a question: if this had happened during a republican administration, would this thread now be 10,000- or 50,000-posts strong. Unbelievable. That aside, I’m curious to see which democrats up for reelection will join in calling “bullshit” and take the offensive against the IRS and Lerner’s protectors. A smart Dem could try to own the issue, helping himself or herself and taking a an issue away from the Republicans. Hell, all those with a conscience should do it. I’m seriously amazed and saddened that something like this is still viewed as partisan. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/17 "2014-06-16T16:00:41Z")
I agree that it is a huge scandal that these groups ever got their tax exempt status approved. The statute is clear that these groups must be working exclusively in the public interest, back in the Eisenhower administration the IRS illegally changed the word “exclusively” to “primarily”. None of these groups, left or right, should have tax exempt status. It is not a scandal that Teabagger groups were targeted because liberal groups were not targeted. The only difference is that not all liberal groups were approved for tax exempt status and that liberal groups didn’t whine like a bunch of babies. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/18 "2014-06-16T16:50:41Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > \*\*I have a question: if this had happened during a republican administration, would this thread now be 10,000- or 50,000-posts strong. > \*\* > Unbelievable. > > That aside, I’m curious to see which democrats up for reelection will join in calling “bullshit” and take the offensive against the IRS and Lerner’s protectors. A smart Dem could try to own the issue, helping himself or herself and taking a an issue away from the Republicans. Hell, all those with a conscience should do it. I’m seriously amazed and saddened that something like this is still viewed as partisan. I agree. One reason my OP was kinda nuetral was to see the reaction it would recieve. Im underwhelmed. One thing for sure is that the media reaction has also been fairly muted too. This is one major instance of what at least looks like open corruption. And certain media outlets have been noticeable so far in their lacklustre coverage of this loss of important data. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/19 "2014-06-16T16:58:34Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I have a question: if this had happened during a republican administration, would this thread now be 10,000- or 50,000-posts strong. > > Unbelievable. > > That aside, I’m curious to see which democrats up for reelection will join in calling “bullshit” and take the offensive against the IRS and Lerner’s protectors. A smart Dem could try to own the issue, helping himself or herself and taking a an issue away from the Republicans. Hell, all those with a conscience should do it. I’m seriously amazed and saddened that something like this is still viewed as partisan. [It did.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy) And those of us who complained were told to suck it up. Shit happens. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/20 "2014-06-16T17:57:39Z")
Is the claim that the e-mails were lost due to a crash on Lerner’s own computer or workstation, or is it that they were lost due to a crash of the IRS’s e-mail servers? If the former, it doesn’t explain why the e-mails couldn’t be recovered from the server. If the latter, it does explain that, but doesn’t explain why the server wasn’t fully restored from backup. Either way, regardless of how much trouble Lerner herself is in, it sounds to me like someone in the IRS’s IT department should be getting some heat. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759.md?page=2)