# Computer crash loses 2 years of Lois Lerner emails **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 14, 2014, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759 "2014-06-14T06:51:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/41 "2014-06-16T23:34:23Z")
On the bright side, liberal posters aren’t rushing to make excuses for this. It is very suspicious, and very convenient. It also may have hurt the cause of better regulating these groups in the long run. The IRS proposed new rules, but have now postponed consideration of those rules: > **[IRS postpones hearing on rules for tax-exempt groups](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/federal_government/irs-postpones-hearing-on-rules-for-tax-exempt-groups/2014/05/22/a4d82daa-e201-11e3-810f-764fe508b82d_story.html)** > > The Internal Revenue Service said Thursday that it will delay a public hearing that the agency planned to hold this summer until it has revised the controversial regulations it proposed last year for... I’m not really sure how much this stuff matters. Anyone can get around whatever rules are set up. Just so long as enforcement is unbiased, I have no issues. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/42 "2014-06-17T02:01:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > This, on the other hand, might explain things. A personal e-mail provider (depending on which one it is) might not store old e-mails indefinitely, or at least make it easy for the user to delete them from the system. Of course, then we have to ask what the IRS’s policy is for employees using personal e-mail accounts for work-related purposes. The impression I received from the articles that it was external emails that didn’t include an internal person that were the issue. Not a personal email account (POP or IMAP). The were able to recover internal emails from people because that’s easy, but external people would have to be subpoenaed individually and you’d have to hope they still have the messages. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/43 "2014-06-17T02:36:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This sort of Bizarro-world accusation is terrible argumentation, because there’s no way for your opponent to refute it. > > Except in this case, there is, as mentioned above. Do a little research, please, and come back to us with the answer: was the thread on the White House loss of emails about attorneys general firing (not about the firings themselves, specifically about the loss of emails) 10,000 or 50,000 posts long? > > Un, as you say, believable. Uh, that theory would be yours to research. So, knock yourself out. Of course that while issue has no bearing on this particular lie from Lerner & Team. But you know that. So you figure, “Hey, let’s make this thread about something other than what it is about.” That’s a helluva effort, soldier. Now, if you’d care to share your thoughts on what is claimed to have happened, feel free to share 'em if you got 'em. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/44 "2014-06-17T03:43:08Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I guess that’s what I get for assuming the government has standards worthy of even a medium sized private company. My very large private company deletes all e-mail after 30 or 60 days on the server. I forget exactly which. Once that time frame is gone, the only copy left is on my HD unless I take steps to back them up. I’m quite certain it has nothing to do with technical difficulties or expenses. Rather, I think it’s to make them more difficult for legal discovery, but I don’t really know. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/45 "2014-06-17T04:04:19Z")
At my company, you can log into any computer and you’ll see the same email in your Outlook. We’re not a large or particularly rich company. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/46 "2014-06-17T04:53:16Z")
I am an I.T. guy and I don’t buy this for a minute. I’ve worked at some large companies and everyone has a backup strategy that allows pulling old data out when needed. The usual strategy is to have an offsite backup and do some sort of san copy between locations. Usually with a tape backup strategy as a failsafe. At my present company we can go back 7 years if needed. In fact, since we have government contracts we have to. For the I.R.S to not have a system in place is inexcusable. If the I.R.S. requires tax payers to have 6 years of documents, then the I.R.S has to meet the same requirement. Why? Some tax issues take years to clear up. He’ll, a friend of mine just finished an audit that started about 5 years ago. He came away clean but it was a nightmare in that he sent the same damned stuff in over and over again. The I.R.S kept losing files and his auditor changed multiple times. If you don’t have the storage to keep the needed emails, you buy another shelf and stick in some drives. Or buy more tapes. Hell, I just expanded one of our Exchange severs store. I doubled it. Took about a day to install the shelf, expand the volume on the San then expand the volume on the server. (Thank you Microsoft for allowing right click disk expansion in server 2008.) And, for the record, the I.R.S runs Exchange, not Outlook. Outlook is just the client. Slee ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/47 "2014-06-17T05:01:03Z")
\*\*The I.R.S kept losing files and his auditor changed multiple times. \*\* Which is why I wonder how a court can ever take their word over a taxpayer’s. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/48 "2014-06-17T05:02:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > On the bright side, liberal posters aren’t rushing to make excuses for this. It is very suspicious, and very convenient. Why bother? The right has attempted to manufacture controversy over effectively every decision the government has made since 2008 and pin it on Obama being some sort of total failure as a President while being hypercompetent at evil villainy. At this point, they’ve cried wolf so many times that nobody pays attention to the supposed scandal of the week, regardless of its merits. The Democrats could go on a killing spree through the House of Representatives at this point, and nobody’d believe it. Nobody’s listening any more, and even if this does turn out to be an actual wrongdoing instead of a technical error, the right will never be able to convince anybody other than the choir of it, since everybody’s used to the perpetual lies, exaggerations, and hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/49 "2014-06-17T05:06:10Z")
I’d say the public is listening. Obama’s approval rating isn’t in the dumps for no reason. THe public believes he’s not honest, not trustworthy, and not competent. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/50 "2014-06-17T09:44:47Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > At my company, you can log into any computer and you’ll see the same email in your Outlook. We’re not a large or particularly rich company. Fucking IBM makes employees clear out their mail to local copies when their mail file gets too big. If republicans are outraged that email is brought offline for cost purposes’they should pass the “improve the IRS computer system Act” and free up some money for them to spend on storage. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/51 "2014-06-17T10:12:35Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d say the public is listening. Obama’s approval rating isn’t in the dumps for no reason. THe public believes he’s not honest, not trustworthy, and not competent. The public believes the same things about Republicans. [Only in greater numbers.](http://www.gallup.com/poll/165317/republican-party-favorability-sinks-record-low.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![jfreakofkorn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jfreakofkorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jfreakofkorn)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/52 "2014-06-17T10:20:33Z")
its has guilty written all over it, jail time is required here ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/53 "2014-06-17T10:35:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > At my company, you can log into any computer and you’ll see the same email in your Outlook. We’re not a large or particularly rich company. I have worked at many companies that do this - but then they limit the space available to each user, so you end up deleting old emails And dinosaurs like me prefer to download to a “local” computer, removing from the server. Naturally there would still be the backups of course… (or presumably) - ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/54 "2014-06-17T10:56:49Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > He didn’t say “corporate companies that use exchange servers and have their clients set up in a specific way to leave the emails on the server…” He said “No company just has emails on a person’s computer.” which is undeniably incorrect. I would deny that is incorrect, except perhaps for some obscure case, or in cases where the emails have been purged off the servers and the only remaining copy is in a local PST archive. Email simply does not reside JUST on local computers. Especially in the case of a large government organization which have very specific requirements to back up data. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/55 "2014-06-17T10:57:16Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Fucking IBM makes employees clear out their mail to local copies when their mail file gets too big. They make us do that, too – and the office is full of idiots who mass-mail pointless one-sentence messages in the form of megabyte-sized PowerPoint slides. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/56 "2014-06-17T10:57:16Z")
An employee using personal email for official business is surely gross misconduct? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/57 "2014-06-17T10:59:07Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’d say the public is listening. Obama’s approval rating isn’t in the dumps for no reason. THe public believes he’s not honest, not trustworthy, and not competent. Dude. You can’t just make a \*stretch \*like that without warming up, first- you can do some serious damage. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/58 "2014-06-17T11:19:58Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > They make us do that, too – and the office is full of idiots who mass-mail pointless one-sentence messages in the form of megabyte-sized PowerPoint slides. Something I recommend to my clients is that they remove the attachments from the email, but leave the email itself. That way they still have a record of the email, but it doesn’t take up much space. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/59 "2014-06-17T11:21:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Uh, that theory would be yours to research. Uh, no–it was your claim that if something similar happened when a Republican was in office, the thread would have thousands of posts. My claim is that’s not true, and in fact I’m now claiming there’s no such thread at all about the Bush attorneys general emails. > [@](#): > > Now, if you’d care to share your thoughts on what is claimed to have happened, feel free to share 'em if you got 'em. I’m too ignorant of technology to have much thought on the particulars, so I’ll mostly confide myself to reading the thread and learning, as I do in most threads where I’m ignorant. But if you or anyone makes another stupid Bizarro claim, I’ll pop back in to ridicule it. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759/60 "2014-06-17T11:25:19Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > THe scandal is that the liberal groups were handled at the Cincinnati level and the Tea Party groups had to be sent to DC, where their applications languished. > > Although this is good for the administration. It’s starting to look more and more like this was the crusade of one woman in the IRS. She was in communication with Justice about these groups. > > Now a lot of liberals might approve of this, but the problem is that she’s not an elected official or even the appointee of an elected official. That’s a call that gets made way above her pay grade. She was trying to make changes to a longstanding policy regarding these groups entirely on her own, and that’s the very definition of a rogue bureaucrat. So in your version of reality, the physical location of an IRS employee is a key determinant in how they perform their job? Back to what really matters, the statute says that these groups must be exclusively working for the public welfare to qualify for the tax exempt status. There is no reason why any Teabagger group should have ever been granted such status. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-crash-loses-2-years-of-lois-lerner-emails/690759.md?page=4)