# Computer Game Sequels \*worse\* than the original? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 12, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496 "2010-09-12T12:31:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/81 "2010-09-24T17:12:29Z")
**JoeH2O** , I’m confused about what you’re saying there. If all races had identical ships with identical stats, then how were some overpowered? Or is it just that some of the ships were identical across races, but then they had a few which distinguished them? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/82 "2010-09-24T17:26:21Z")
Star Control 3 sucked. Horrifying 3D puppets replaced the 2D sprites from StarCon 2, transforming the sexy Syreen into hellspawn ventriloquist dummies. StarCon 3 wasn’t even made by the original creators, apparently they left the Accolade but the company retained the rights to the game or something. > [@Commander\_Keen](#): > > Quake 3 wasn’t a bad game, but way worse than 2. I remember thinking 4 was decent, but again, it’s not Quake 2. I thought Quake 3 was great. It’s just that after the epic single-player campaign of Quake 2, they decided to change the whole format into a series of deathmatches vs. computer bots. I think it was different and incomparible to 2. The deathmatch and online play of 3 blows 2 out of the water though. > [@kushiel](#): > > I’d like to hear from someone who has played FF Tactics and the sequels. I didn’t really play Tactics for the actual strategy part, more for the plot part, which is why I haven’t picked up any of the sequels. Yes, not even Al-Cid as a playable could make me do that. What a coincidence, I’m replaying FF Tactics right now and the FF Tactics Advanced on Game Boy (I have FFTA 2 but haven’t gotten around to it yet). Comparatively, FFT was better in every way even though it came out about 10 years earlier. The story was what drew many people in to FFT, the jobs being the other part. These things were simplified in FFTA and it just wasn’t as fun. Think of FFTA as FFT-lite. ---
**Author:** ![JoeH2O](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@JoeH2O](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeH2O)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/83 "2010-09-24T18:27:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > **JoeH2O** , I’m confused about what you’re saying there. If all races had identical ships with identical stats, then how were some overpowered? Or is it just that some of the ships were identical across races, but then they had a few which distinguished them? Yes, sorry I should have mentioned that it was the one or two special ships that set the races apart. The Borg’s fleet was identical on a 1 for 1 basis with the Federation for example, except for the Cube (and the ability to combine 8 cubes into the mega cube), which made the rest of the ships totally irrelevant. I forget what what Borg version of the Akira long range torpedo ship was - something like the Harbinger, so you could do the same tactic with that as you could with the Akira (long range bombardment from beyond the weapons range of any other thing, including base defences) but it was just easier to build the mega cube, which was the only counter to massed Akiras. The Romulans had the ability to cloak the Warbird, which was their special ship (it was bigger and slightly better than the Sovereign class starship), but were otherwise very similar to the Klingons. It just struck me as a game that had very little playtesting or balancing done to it to address glaring errors - if they had played it for more than a few minutes they would see that it was just far too easy and cheap to build a fleet of a Akiras and go on a rampage. They could have corrected it by making them slower so they could just dance around outside the range of a Warbird and take it down easily, or lessened the power of the torpedos. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/84 "2010-09-25T16:44:58Z")
> [@Mekhazzio](#): > > For games it does seem to be the third, rather than the second. Knowing this to be true, Epic games decided to call the fourth installment of their Tournament series, **Unreal Tournament 3**. They knew is was going to be craptastic when compared to the nearly perfect (actual) third installment, **Unreal Tournament 2004** and wanted to provide some warning to savvy gamers. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/85 "2010-09-25T17:48:33Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Knights of the Old Republic 2. > > There were a lot of great new gameplay additions, but the half-baked story is still a huge sorepoint for fans. Blame Lucasarts for that. They told the development team(Obsidian) at the last minute they wanted it done for a Christmas release, so the ending pretty much ended being a barely functional few dungeons. ---
**Author:** ![HPL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3da27b/32.png) [@HPL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HPL)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/86 "2010-09-25T17:53:30Z")
> [@choie](#): > > Speaking of **Half-Life** , I do prefer HL2 marginally over HL1, but I’ve always been a fan of characters over plot. Plus, I found it more immersive. But it’s a very close call, and as others have said, what one lacks in one area, it more than makes up for in another. > > However, if you consider the episodes, I’d say that HL2:E1 is nowhere near as good as HL2, though perhaps that’s an unfair comparison since it’s so short. Fortunately, the quality and certainly characterization/storyline took a steep upturn with HL2:E2. > > - Personally I never had all the tech problems everyone else complained about, but that might be 'cause I bought it late enough in its life-cycle, post-patches. I agree with you. I think the real problem with Episode 1 is that it feels too much like the last few chapters of Half Life 2. You’re retreading the same ground, going back into the citadel and fighting back through the same war torn streets as “Anti-citizen one” and “Follow Freeman”. I recently replayed HL2, Ep1 and Ep2 and I kept confusing parts of Ep1 and the final few chapters of HL2 just because that’s how similar they are. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/87 "2010-09-25T18:11:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In fairness, SMB2 was really just a totally unrelated game called Doki Doki Panic that used sprites lifted from the SMB world for the US and European markets. Not totally unrelated. Doki Doki Panic was directed by Mario creator Shigeru Miyamoto. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/88 "2010-09-25T21:15:13Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > > [@Mekhazzio](#): > > > > For games it does seem to be the third, rather than the second. The second is an interation, often by the very same development team, then the third comes along later and tries to change things up to be “fresh” and goes down a dead end. > > > > Descent 3, Doom 3, Rainbow Six 3, Thief 3, X-Com 3, MoO 3, Red Alert 3, X-Wing 3, Gunship 3, Wing Commander 3, all of them were atrocious while the second games were at least as worthy as the original. > > > > The list of immediate sequels that were stinkers that I can come up with is much shorter…Dark Reign 2, C&C 2, Killer Instinct 2. > > Some more Wing Commander. While not true sequels, cashing in on the name were Wing Commander Academy, Wing Commander Armada, Wing Commander 4, and Privateer 2 (I haven’t played the rest) and none of them were very good. I don’t get the hate you guys have for Wing Commander 3 and 4. Is it because you don’t like FMV? The core game was still really good, as were the stories, at least compared to games of their days. WC Academy, on the other hand, you’re being charitable even calling that a game. It was a construction kit, nothing more. And not a very good one. > [@GESancMan](#): > > Going back a ways… I thought _Ultima VI_ was good, but not quite as good as _V_. Then _VII_ (both parts) were the best of the series, and _VIII_ pretty much sucked. That’s the series I came in to talk about, though I’m surprised 9 didn’t earn any wrath on your part. Or are you pretending it doesn’t exist? > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The WWE games have been getting steadily worse (in terms of gameplay, though not graphics and sound) since _No Mercy_ on the N64, which I think was the last one to use the Asmik Ace/AKI grappling system. I wouldn’t say they always get worse. The initial games after they stopped using AKI were definitely a step back, but the more recent ones are better in some ways, worse in others. They really hit on something good when they took a risk on mapping grapples to the second analog stick, for instance. But every year, there’s always something they do that makes you wonder “why are they making that thing worse?” Over time, however, they tend towards getting better. Compare SD vs Raw 2010 to the first SD vs Raw, and there’s just no question 2010 is better. Likewise SD vs Raw was lightyears better than SD: Just Bring it. Also it’s not really fair to consider the SD/SD vs Raw games as being in the same series as No Mercy. That’s like calling [whatever EA’s college football game is called] a sequel to Madden. WCW vs the World, WCW vs nWo, WCW/nWo Revenge, WWF Wrestlemania 2000, WWF No Mercy (and japanese releases Virtual Prowrestling, Virtual Prowrestling 64, Virtual Prowrestling 2) are all in the same series, sure, but the SD line was a different series altogether, as were the games on the XB and the games on the GC. It’s only for the current generation that all the THQ 'rasslin games are in the same series. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/89 "2010-09-25T21:38:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > From everything I’ve heard, _Myth III_ was worse than _Myth II_, but that’s mostly attributable to how good II was, not really a condemnation of III. Oh, I dunno. Myth III would have been an alright but forgettable game if it was stand alone. They tried to do way too much (minimal updates from Myth I to II), the story wasn’t the greatest, and there were a couple levels that relied on luck or uber micromanagement way too much (the final level especially). So I wouldn’t say it was a good game that just didn’t stand up in comparison. It didn’t suck, but it didn’t need the letdown for it to get bashed. The other game that immediately came to mind was, as has been mentioned, Deus Ex II. ---
**Author:** ![magnusblitz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@magnusblitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magnusblitz)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/90 "2010-09-25T23:52:19Z")
Vote here for Deus Ex 2. The first is one of my top 5 games of all time, but I played the demo of Deus Ex 2 and hated it so much I didn’t buy the game when it came out. I had been reading a lot of stuff recently about how “well its not as good as the first, but it’s still a decent game, it gets bad mouthed for the wrong reasons” so I bought it off Steam for $3. Big mistake. Installed it and couldn’t even finish the first area. The graphics are somehow worse than the original, the voice acting was terrible (and given the voice acting in the former was bad, that’s pretty inventive) and I basically had no desire to even begin to play the game. I would also make another tentative vote for HL2. HL2 is not bad by any means, but I don’t feel it’s deserving of the greatest game ever accolades it gets. It’s got some very well-designed gameplay moments, surrounded by… not a whole lot. It does have some good atmosphere, but beyond that, it’s lacking. There are actually less versatility to the enemies and weapons (apart from the gravity gun) than the original, and overall the whole game just didn’t seem as well-packaged as the first one. I’d also argue against KOTOR 2 being worse than the former. The ending is definitely rushed, but everything else is far superior. The characters are much more interesting and well-developed, there are more powers and abilities and items, and the storyline is amazing (until it falls off a cliff due to the rushed ending). I’d say Unreal 2 is inferior to the original Unreal. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/91 "2010-09-26T03:46:39Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, I dunno. Myth III would have been an alright but forgettable game if it was stand alone. They tried to do way too much (minimal updates from Myth I to II), the story wasn’t the greatest, and there were a couple levels that relied on luck or uber micromanagement way too much (the final level especially). So I wouldn’t say it was a good game that just didn’t stand up in comparison. It didn’t suck, but it didn’t need the letdown for it to get bashed. I’ll take your word for that, since I never actually played it. I’m just saying that I wasn’t all that surprised when I heard it wasn’t as good as II: After all, there are a ton of games that aren’t as good as Myth II. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/92 "2010-09-26T05:29:42Z")
Golden Oldies: I felt Gauntlet 2 was terrible compared to 1. In 2, many of the mazes felt like busy work…run all the way to one side to hit a trap, then all the way back…the teleporters were very annoying too, and it felt like powerups were just distractions rather than actual aids. Street Fighter 2 sequels were hit and miss, imho. I think it peaked at World Warriors, my friends liked Alpha the most. I think counters and super comboes took too much out of the game. Rolling Thunder 2 and Russian Attack 2 were terrible compared to the originals because of the same reason: another company developed the sequel. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/93 "2010-09-26T05:33:02Z")
At the moment I feel like nominating Civ V. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/94 "2010-09-26T05:51:31Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > Blame Lucasarts for that. They told the development team(Obsidian) at the last minute they wanted it done for a Christmas release, so the ending pretty much ended being a barely functional few dungeons. I’d almost agree with you if it weren’t for the fact that EVERY Obsidian game comes out buggy and feeling terribly rushed. > [@kushiel](#): > > I never played it, but a lot of Devil May Cry fans didn’t like DMC2. > > I’d like to hear from someone who has played FF Tactics and the sequels. I didn’t really play Tactics for the actual strategy part, more for the plot part, which is why I haven’t picked up any of the sequels. Yes, not even Al-Cid as a playable could make me do that. DMC2 and 4 with both pretty terrible. As for FFTactics, it didn’t have sequels. The FFT Advance games are utterly and completely unrelated. FFTactics was about a religious and political feud that saw a man and his best friend end up on opposite sides of a war. It dealt with class-ism, religion, politics, etc. FFTAdvance was about kids trapped in a magic book trying to get home. As far as gameplay goes, FFTA was terrible whereas FFT was great (the stupid law system ruined FFTA). I heard FFTA2 was much improved over the original, but yea. I refuse to support those games using the FFT title. > [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > _Bioshock_ really doesn’t have anything to do with _System Shock_, in much the same way none of the _Final Fantasy_ games have anything to do with each other (despite the fact there are something like [del]14[/del] XIV “Final Fantasy” games). More like 50 if you include the Tactics series, Legends, the Chocobo games, prequels, sequels (like FFX-2) etc etc. I would however point out that Bioshock and System Shock 2 were dev’d by the same team, whereas Final Fantasy hasn’t been done by the same guys since about 7 or 8, depending on who you’re talking about (Hironobu Sakaguchi, the creator of the series, left after FFX, and he only Executive Produced that. The last game he did creative/concept stuff for was FFIX.) ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/95 "2010-09-26T06:06:26Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > These days, are any Madden games (or other sports games) anything but roster updates? I’ve argued that a \*\*lot \*\*on the hockey forum that I post on regularly. EA sports has zero respect for its fan base. At least if you’re only slightly modifying the same engine and tweaking rosters, that should be reflected in the price. Sega figured that out, and so NFL 2K3, 2K4 and 2K5 (and their NHL counterparts) were all around thirty bucks or so. Then Madden decided to demand an exclusive license from the NFL, and ruined a far fairer (and better IMO) sports franchise. The same can be said for hockey, which is part of the reason I’m NOT getting NHL 11. I played the demo for it, and the color commentary was taken WORD for WORD from NHL 10. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/96 "2010-09-26T06:15:57Z")
> [@antonio107](#): > > > [@asterion](#): > > > > These days, are any Madden games (or other sports games) anything but roster updates? > > I’ve argued that a \*\*lot \*\*on the hockey forum that I post on regularly. EA sports has zero respect for its fan base. At least if you’re only slightly modifying the same engine and tweaking rosters, that should be reflected in the price. Sega figured that out, and so NFL 2K3, 2K4 and 2K5 (and their NHL counterparts) were all around thirty bucks or so. Then Madden decided to demand an exclusive license from the NFL, and ruined a far fairer (and better IMO) sports franchise. > > The same can be said for hockey, which is part of the reason I’m NOT getting NHL 11. I played the demo for it, and the color commentary was taken WORD for WORD from NHL 10. This, and now the Project $10 bullshit, is the reason I don’t buy Fifa games (I used to get 'em once every 3 years or so). I’ll be sticking with PES from now on (again, once every 3 years or so, cause Konami still charges full price. Though this year they’re totally revamping their passing system and a whole bunch of other stuff, so it might be worth the upgrade. We’ll see) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/97 "2010-09-26T07:57:38Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > As for FFTactics, it didn’t have sequels. The FFT Advance games are utterly and completely unrelated. FFTactics was about a religious and political feud that saw a man and his best friend end up on opposite sides of a war. It dealt with class-ism, religion, politics, etc. FFTAdvance was about kids trapped in a magic book trying to get home. > > As far as gameplay goes, FFTA was terrible whereas FFT was great (the stupid law system ruined FFTA). Funny thing is, the FFT story was a convoluted political story that was not helped at all by the inexpert localization, and the gameplay was undeniably broken. Compared to that, FFTA is far better balanced and solid. Yet, FFT is by far the more enjoyable game. It’s not just the paucity of story and the bullshit law system that hurts FFTA…I just really hate the Clan stuff Square seems intent on including in every Final Fantasy game in the last few years. I can’t quite explain why, but it just doesn’t interest me and in fact kind of puts me off. There’s too much they want you to DO in FFTA, whereas I could happily spend 3 game years fighting random battles in Mandalia Plains in FFT. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/98 "2010-09-26T08:26:19Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > That’s the series I came in to talk about, though I’m surprised 9 didn’t earn any wrath on your part. Or are you pretending it doesn’t exist? I thought it was OK, as just a game; but as an _Ultima_, it sucked. The mechanics of _Ultima IX_ are so far removed from the previous games that I have a hard time considering the game a true part of the series. It’s more like a completely different kind of game that happens to be set in the same world. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/99 "2010-09-26T08:30:09Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > At the moment I feel like nominating Civ V. BURN THE HERETIC!!! Er, I mean, um… Well, accepting that you might have some valid concerns I would point out you’re comparing a product in its first week to an iteration that now has several years worth of updates and two expansion packs on it. Hardly fair. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496/100 "2010-09-26T09:08:57Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > > [@Cicero](#): > > > > At the moment I feel like nominating Civ V. > > BURN THE HERETIC!!! > > Er, I mean, um… Well, accepting that you might have some valid concerns I would point out you’re comparing a product in its first week to an iteration that now has several years worth of updates and two expansion packs on it. Hardly fair. Oh, I agree entirely. I had the same feeling about Civ IV for a while. A few days of playing it will probably do the trick. I’ll add a bit more about the game on the dedicated thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computer-game-sequels-worse-than-the-original/553496.md?page=6)