# Computing has become too overwhelming (updates) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334 "2010-10-16T13:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![BorgHunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@BorgHunter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BorgHunter)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/21 "2010-10-17T01:19:43Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > > [@GargoyleWB](#): > > > > For truth. Windows 7 is slightly better, but Windows still can’t seem to update anything without dialogue boxes and forced reboots, and doesn’t let you _globally_ control update cycles for installed programs. > > Installed programs have their own update daemons. You can prevent them from starting by disabling them in the registry. Why the shit ass _balls_ should a user _ever_ have to prevent a program from being obnoxious by going into regedit (or, as I suspect you meant, msconfig)? I mean, seriously. I know that the whole “individual updaters” systems is an ugly kludge to get around Windows not having useful package management capabilities, but very few Windows updaters behave in a sane fashion. Firefox is one of the few well-designed ones. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/22 "2010-10-17T06:08:12Z")
> [@Morella](#): > > > [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > > > This is the one that really gets me. In XP Windows doesn’t even ask. It just kicks in, slowing everything down, not telling you what it is doing even if you ask. “Why is this computer so slow” “I dunno”. > > Turn off automatic updates, or decide to choose when they are performed. > > [Windows Update: FAQ - Microsoft Support](http://support.microsoft.com/kb/306525) It might take a little longer to deal with it. No, I don’t want an update of Office Live which I never use. I tell the stuff to go away, and no problem until it gets reset after I update stuff I really care about. I have Vista, and I nearly always hibernate instead of turn off since you can avoid updating then. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/23 "2010-10-17T06:10:00Z")
> [@NOLA\_Cajun](#): > > FUCK YOU OPENOFFICE! Had an update available so I downloaded it. Goddamn thing took so long to do I wanted to strangle kittens while kicking puppies! And then to make it even worse..I’m trying to get out the door and every time I tell it YES.. DOWNLOAD THE GODDAMN THING AND INSTALL IT! It would pop up another window asking me to click YES or ACCEPT or what the fuck ever before FINALLY it began the install. And to make it worse it seems to have downloaded and installed the complete OpenOffice program instead of just so called “updates”. > > I’ve got an MS Office CD. Me thinks it’s time to dump OpenOffice and go back to MS Office. You know, it really won’t mind if you leave it at the prompt for hours and hours. Just because it asks you to click less doesn’t mean you have to do it right then. You’re still the boss - for a while anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/24 "2010-10-17T14:28:13Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Updates aren’t a problem. Updates as they are on Windows are a problem. Thank you for being the one to say this (so that I didn’t have to). I curse Microsoft every chance I get for acclimating people to “rebooting is a normal part of the update process”. Made worse by the fact that cumulative patches require a reboot/update cycle until everything is current. On my linux systems, it’s simply “Check, install” and done – everything is current, rebooting required only when the core OS has been changed (not very often). ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/25 "2010-10-17T15:19:57Z")
I generally don’t mind how updates are done, except on my laptop running Ubuntu. “Updates are available for 346 stupid-ass services / programs that you’ve never heard of and probably don’t use - but you’ll never know for sure unless you spend a decade training on a Tibetan mountaintop with Linux guru, so just install everything and don’t plan on using your laptop for the rest of the evening.” It’s an old laptop, so it wouldn’t be surprising that it’s slow - except that it ran the Windows 7 release candidate without any problems. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/26 "2010-10-17T16:21:12Z")
> [@BlackKnight](#): > > I generally don’t mind how updates are done, except on my laptop running Ubuntu. “Updates are available for 346 stupid-ass services / programs that you’ve never heard of and probably don’t use - but you’ll never know for sure unless you spend a decade training on a Tibetan mountaintop with Linux guru, so just install everything and don’t plan on using your laptop for the rest of the evening.” Yeah, what IS it with Ubuntu? Recently they changed one of the computers I use at work over to Ubuntu, and gave me ‘administrator privileges’ – Madness! I’m not at a ‘I broke the drink holder’ level, but I should NOT be in charge of anything. Anyway, they’ve told me to accept every update whenever the update manager thingy pops up. And that happens at least once a week AND it’s not one or two updates, last time it was 14! And I’ve seen over two dozen in one batch…and we’ve only had Ubuntu since the start of September! Okay, yes, it’s nice there’s only been two times I had to reboot, but still! Why in the world does your software need to be fixed that often?? ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/27 "2010-10-17T17:44:39Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Okay, yes, it’s nice there’s only been two times I had to reboot, but still! Why in the world does your software need to be fixed that often?? Not to defend, but to explain (and someone correct me or clarify as needed): _packages_, which are the units of updates, are independently maintained. When a bug-fix or modification is accepted by the package maintainer, it goes into the repository to be propagated. An update could be something as simple as “Changed an output message” or it could be a total code overhaul. Because packages are independently maintained, updates are released as they are made; there’s really no central authority who coordinates inter-package releases. To explain further, a package is often just part of an entire application; that is, a single application may _depend on_ many packages. If many of those “dependencies” are updated, one sees all of them, even though all you’re really updating is a single application. Then there’s another situation also: packages often depend on other packages. So, a single small change in a single package can trigger updates to many other packages and/or applications. Again, you’ll see all of the package updates, even though a single change is to blame. Whereas Microsoft may pack only one fix into an update or (as I think is most often the case) many, many fixes into one massive update. So, on Windows systems, you may only get one update; under the hood, you may be updating hundreds of “packages”. Maybe a good example would be something like the SP2 update for XP – who knows how many fixes were in there…I’d expect hundreds and hundreds. In Ubuntu, if you’ve ever done the (mostly) analogous step of performing a version upgrade, you’ll have all the packages listed, with potentially thousands of packages affected. For both systems, it’s a single “update”; for Windows you see “XP SP2”, while for Ubuntu, you see the entire list of packages. ---
**Author:** ![DarrenS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@DarrenS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DarrenS)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/28 "2010-10-17T17:46:53Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > Okay, yes, it’s nice there’s only been two times I had to reboot, but still! Why in the world does your software need to be fixed that often?? Part of the problem here is that Ubuntu tries to be very international-friendly. If you examine some of the updates you’ll see they’re for stuff like “fix daylight savings time in Tibet” or “allow filenames to contain Sumerian runes”. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/29 "2010-10-17T17:50:20Z")
With regards to the forced rebooting that usually follows updates…I remember fondly the Novell Netware software that was able to update and extend the server system without rebooting. Since rebooting would have caused hundreds of users to have to log off or lose their work in the company I worked for, that would have been a real imposition. Somehow the smart Novell software engineers found a way to avoid that. 30 years later, Microsoft still hasn’t caught up in the engineering department. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/30 "2010-10-17T17:56:12Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > With regards to the forced rebooting that usually follows updates… There’s ongoing research – I forget what university and also whether it was linux, BSD, or something else – on doing this at the kernel level. They actually identify the code in memory and replace it, updating all the effected tokens, pointers, etc. Neat stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/31 "2010-10-17T18:10:06Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > iTunes used to have a “shopping cart” where you could gather the music you were interested in before buying. > > One of there “upgrades” eliminated the shipping cart. they didn’t say that of course – well maybe they did somewhere in the 4 point font 4 pages of notes which no one has the time or eagle vision to read. Now you click and you’ve bought. > > And there’s no going back. Hmm, my iTunes always asks me if I do indeed want to buy that song. Maybe you need to check/uncheck something somewhere. You guys are really making me appreciate my Macs - “Updates are ready to install” “NOT NOW, YOU FOOL!” and it goes away until I’m ready to do a mass update. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/32 "2010-10-17T18:16:43Z")
What I hate is that every time Java updates, I get a prompt to install the Yahoo! Toolbar or the Bing Toolbar and there’s a big window that promotes OpenOffice. I’d much prefer a silent, unobtrusive update process. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/33 "2010-10-17T19:25:05Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > That’s what drove me off AOL over a decade ago. Every time I wanted to log off, they wanted to install updates. I got to the point where I’d just unplug the modem (this was dialup) at the end of each session. > > Updates should be limited. What these people don’t realize is that updates aren’t a convenience, and they don’t add value. Updates are a sign that someone SCREWED UP THE PROGRAM IN THE FIRST PLACE, for the most part. If it had been done RIGHT in the first place, we wouldn’t need nearly so many updates. > > Unless an update is critical, it shouldn’t be required. And they shouldn’t be pushed on people. Sorry to break it to you, but no programs are done “right in the first place” anymore. In fact, they haven’t for years. Things have got too complex. And sometimes it may even be updated because a software development kit (SDK) used as part of the development process had a bug. That’s not the fault of the guys that wrote the program. But yes, a pox on Windows programs that think they should have their own daemon to check for updates. Only the OS should do that - and only if the user says OK to it. Any other program should only ever check when you launch that program, which is generally how it works on OSX. Although everything fitting into one update mechanism, like on Linux where you can add non-official repositories to the central package management tool, would be lovely. ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/34 "2010-10-18T20:44:08Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > You forgot “Please re-read the User Agreement and check the ‘I Agree’ Box” [Check, OK] More like read the 58 page legal document and check a box certifying that you have read and understand all of it. I can’t afford to be a computer owner with all the lawyer fees! ☹ Really it irks me that computer software expects us to either read all that, or just routinely lie about it. Just show me the fucking PDF!!! ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/35 "2010-10-19T01:28:11Z")
Windows 7 will automatically shutdown your computer to install updates now. Oh joy. The last update took away my input language toggle. So now I’m stuck with just English until I can remember how the fucking hell I installed the Japanese input. Thanks Windows, your update sucks ass. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/36 "2010-10-19T04:07:44Z")
Maybe the only advantage to using IE over Firefox is that IE never has to be updated in the sense that those updates are rolled into Windows updates that everyone using Windows has to do anyway. I don’t use iTunes so I don’t get those updates either, (I wrote my own media player,) so I’m actually fairly update-free. Just last week I had a bad update day, though, so I can totally relate. A storm was coming in that could potentially knock out power for a couple days. I had stocked up on everything, but had forgotten to charge up my mp3 player. It charges in a usb port, takes around 90 minutes. I fire up the computer, Windows needs to update. Fine, whatever, do that. I wait to start charging since I don’t know if rebooting would mess with the charging in some way. Once Windows is updated and rebooted, now AVG needs updating. WTF? I update definitions every day. I go ahead, and it’s a whole new version. Now updated and rebooted, I’m ready to start charging. In the end, it took me 40 full minutes to turn on the computer and start charging my mp3 player. I was getting progressively stressed out as the storm drew ever closer. So annoying. Luckily I never lost power and it was all good, but it turns out the new AVG version slowed all internet browsing to a crawl. Gah!!! I later discovered the problem was the Link Analyzer thing, which I got rid of by uninstalling AVG and reinstalling with that option completely removed. Now it works like a dream, my computer is faster than it has been in forever. Yeah, this new updating paradigm blows chunks. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/37 "2010-10-19T04:56:08Z")
I dunno, I don’t have any issues with iTunes. Maybe that’s because I turn OFF all the shit I’m not using. The Genius stuff is a disaster. Turned off. Automatic updates. Turned off. Ping. Turned off. I guess for most stuff it comes down to turning off automatic updates for every and all software packages you have installed. They suck donkey balls. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/38 "2010-10-19T07:00:02Z")
Every program loves to check for updates. My disk defragmenter likes to update. Can you defrag the disk or not? What in the world could there be to update? Adobe Reader updates about every five seconds. Flash needs updates every day or two. Java has a new version now, ten minutes from now and in an hour from now. My monitor software wants to check for updates every day! I’ve had this monitor for over a year and it has never needed any kind of update! Again, it either works or it doesn’t and updates don’t do shit to change that. The trick is figuring out how to shut all these updates off. Itunes users, here is a guide to how to prevent Apple from installing all that shitware in the first place: > **[The unofficial guide to installing iTunes 10 without bloatware](https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-unofficial-guide-to-installing-itunes-10-without-bloatware/?tag=mantle_skin%3Bcontent)** > > iTunes 10 might be brand new, but little has changed in Cupertino. Apple still gives Windows users a single installer that clutters your hard disk with a bunch of unnecessary components, some of which can be harmful to your system's security and... Every other program: dig deep into the options and shut all the autoupdate shit off. I managed to get a tolerable experience out of RealPlayer just by turning off the dozens of options for message center, special deals, updates, security updates, et cetera. It takes work but it can be done. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/39 "2010-10-19T09:37:47Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Windows 7 will automatically shutdown your computer to install updates now. Oh joy. The last update took away my input language toggle. So now I’m stuck with just English until I can remember how the fucking hell I installed the Japanese input. > Thanks Windows, your update sucks ass. If you tell Windows 7 to install stuff automatically. Personally I have it set to “check but don’t install, just tell me there are updates”. I’ve never had window 7 shut down without me asking with that setting. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2010, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334/40 "2010-10-19T10:06:24Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Windows 7 will automatically shutdown your computer to install updates now. Oh joy. The last update took away my input language toggle. So now I’m stuck with just English until I can remember how the fucking hell I installed the Japanese input. > Thanks Windows, your update sucks ass. That functionality is under “Regional settings”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/computing-has-become-too-overwhelming-updates/557334.md?page=3)