# Concealed Carry Legal Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890 "2009-03-09T23:28:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/21 "2009-03-10T13:32:09Z")
Well, actually I’m pleased to hear that there aren’t a horde of cites coming, because it means it must be something that doesn’t happen very often, if at all. And as an earlier poster here noted, there have to be a lot of things that happen before anyone would even know. Outside of an airport (where it would be Missouri-mule stupid to carry anyhow, let alone illegal here) no one has ever looked in my handbag without my express prior permission, so they would never find my weapon. Nonetheless, I do pride myself on being an example of the textbook law-abiding CCW holder, so I do look out for the signs and will not willingly or knowingly carry where proper signage is posted. I’m still a little leery about carrying where improper signage is posted, but then again I do want to stay safe, and that trumps my sensibilities towards those who can’t obey the law themselves. After all, the cost of proper signage is exactly the same as improper signage (how much can an 8x8 inch decal cost? $0.50?) and the law is not only unambiguous, it gives an example which can be printed out and laminated if need be. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/22 "2009-03-10T13:34:34Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > After all, the cost of proper signage is exactly the same as improper signage (how much can an 8x8 inch decal cost? $0.50?) and the law is not only unambiguous, it gives an example which can be printed out and laminated if need be. [$1.25, actually](https://www.mcua.org/files/smcustaft/22/file/News_Information/pdf/cw_order.pdf). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/23 "2009-03-10T13:38:21Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > [$1.25, actually](https://www.mcua.org/files/smcustaft/22/file/News_Information/pdf/cw_order.pdf). 😃 There you have it. Of course, as I said they could print out the AG’s PDF - they could even have their kids color in the red circle with Crayolas. “Hey Susie? Want to help mommy color some things? Try to stay in the lines or else it may become a non-compliant sign! Yes, it does look like the Ghostbusters symbol…” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/24 "2009-03-10T13:41:58Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > But if they ever catch a CCW holder on the premises they can play “gotcha!” and suddenly you’re an insta-criminal. In Texas you’re not an insta-criminal they just ask you to leave the premises. If you refuse then you’re trespassing but it’s not an instant got’cha. When Texas first passed their concealed carry law back in 1996 (I think) I saw a lot of businesses put signs up. The Prestonwood Mall had a sign up that was clearly not within the legal guidelines as they were not prominently displayed. > [@](#): > > do CCW and/or legal Dopers here know of a case where a CCW holder was tried or prosecuted for being on the premises when a non-compliant sign is used? Not off hand but that’s because it’s not necessarily an instant got’cha offense. Odesio ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/25 "2009-03-10T13:51:37Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > In Texas you’re not an insta-criminal they just ask you to leave the premises. If you refuse then you’re trespassing but it’s not an instant got’cha. When Texas first passed their concealed carry law back in 1996 (I think) I saw a lot of businesses put signs up. The Prestonwood Mall had a sign up that was clearly not within the legal guidelines as they were not prominently displayed. This seems to be the gist of it: regardless of whether the sign is valid or not, they can’t just pop out from behind a bush and bust you. The owner/operator of the property has to act in good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/26 "2009-03-10T14:45:05Z")
I guess Texas may not be a good example, nor may other States. It’s possible Kansas situation may be mostly specific to Kansas (see above, where a sign/opt-out violation is a Class B Misdemeanor) and few other places. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/27 "2009-03-10T16:01:29Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > In Texas you’re not an insta-criminal they just ask you to leave the premises. If you refuse then you’re trespassing but it’s not an instant got’cha. In Florida, this is true. “No guns” signs don’t mean anything more than “No outside food or drinks” signs in movie theatres. If caught, the property owner can eject you from the premises, and refusal to leave is trespass (and trespass while armed is a felony in Florida), but simply carrying against the directives of a sign is not criminal. However, I thought Texas was different. I thought that section 30.06 spelled out how a sign had to be displayed, and if it was displayed properly, then simply disobeying the sign would be a criminal offense. I could be wrong, though.. ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/28 "2009-03-10T16:34:59Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > However, I thought Texas was different. I thought that section 30.06 spelled out how a sign had to be displayed, and if it was displayed properly, then simply disobeying the sign would be a criminal offense. I could be wrong, though.. So far as I know, carrying in a no-go place (say, a bar that derives more than 50% of its income from the sale of alcohol for on-site consumption, or Six Flags) or a place properly posted 30.06 is some sort of criminal offense. I’m headed to work so I can’t dig up the section of the law, but my impression from class was that it was a Very Bad Thing. If nobody beats me to it, I’ll check later. And **Really Not All That Bright** , I wasn’t trying to be snarky with you…with regards to the AAC, Wiki has the ownership wrong, too. The City built the thing with the intent to lease it out, but still retains proper ownership. That’s why the law is a bit confusing…for all intents and purposes, the AAC is a private property governed by the LLC, and in those circumstances would have every right to post 30.06. Yet the law seems pretty clear that a place owned by a local gov’t entity cannot post. I think even the attorney at the CHL board isn’t really convinced either way. Playing it safe, I wouldn’t carry…but that’s mainly because I wouldn’t want to be the test case. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/29 "2009-03-10T16:42:48Z")
> [@BlakeTyner](#): > > And **Really Not All That Bright** , I wasn’t trying to be snarky with you…with regards to the AAC, Wiki has the ownership wrong, too. The City built the thing with the intent to lease it out, but still retains proper ownership. No offense taken. Out of curiosity… did they name the law thirty-aught-six on purpose? ---
**Author:** ![AZRob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/azrob/32/3003_2.png) [@AZRob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AZRob)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/30 "2009-03-11T04:22:01Z")
Una, It may give you some peace of mind to learn what the local prosecutor’s office thinks of this law and whether they have dealt with it. A law such as this may be deemed pretty much unenforceable or unprosecutable based upon the prosecutor’s view of the law or the prosecutor may know that the local judges aren’t in favor of the law. You may be able to find out more at your local gun shops. I’ve known several prosecutors in my City who are gun owners and between prosecutors and cops who patronize local gun shops near you, you may be able to get a good sense of how this would be approached. Good luck, AZRob ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/31 "2009-03-11T07:37:45Z")
> [@drachillix](#): > > I believe the places where CCW’s are generally not allowed to pack are pretty well defined and its mostly government buildings including schools and banks, stuff like that. Banks? I’m mainly familiar with the laws in my own state of Washington, but I wasn’t aware offhand of any locality that prohibits carrying in banks by statute; do you know of such a place? > [@BlakeTyner](#): > > And, really, that’s not too surprising. How would anyone know you’re carrying, anyway? I’ve accidentally tucked my shirt behind my gun and walked around for a while with NOBODY noticing. Most people are kinda sheepish and oblivious. Definitely something you’d want to be careful about, since open carry is not legal in Texas; but I definitely have no problem believing that the majority of people wouldn’t notice a thing. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BlakeTyner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@BlakeTyner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlakeTyner)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/32 "2009-03-11T17:32:01Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > Definitely something you’d want to be careful about, since open carry is not legal in Texas; but I definitely have no problem believing that the majority of people wouldn’t notice a thing. :smack: Yeah, it’s certainly not a good thing to do. Fortunately, the law is pretty clear that the failure to conceal a handgun must be_intentional_, so an accidental “print” of the gun, or a wind gust that blows one’s shirt up, or my accident, isn’t technically a crime. A slippery slope to be sure, and one I’d worry about if I lived in, say, Austin. But here? Nah. > [@](#): > > Out of curiosity… did they name the law thirty-aught-six on purpose? I don’t think so. Chapter 30 of the penal code was already present and already dealt with criminal trespass, so it looks like when they passed the CHL law, they just tacked on another section to deal with trespass by a holder of a CHL. By coincidence, it ended up being 30.06. Fortunate, though, because it _does_ make it easy to remember. And, as promised, I dug through the Texas law, and sure enough it’s a Class A Misdemeanor (Criminal Trespass) to carry in a place that prohibits CHL. I thought it was more than that, but tis true. Punishment can be a fine of up to $4,000 and/or 1 year of jail time, plus suspension (but not revocation) of the CHL. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890/33 "2009-03-11T20:58:07Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Out of curiosity… did they name the law thirty-aught-six on purpose? **Exactly** what I was thinking! :eek: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-legal-question/488890.md?page=1)