# Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act-Good Idea or Not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 27, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368 "2017-04-27T15:16:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/21 "2017-04-27T17:12:14Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > The states rights is one argument, and I hear it from even the staunchest pro-gun-rights advocates. But the argument in favor of these bills is that you shouldn’t have to give up your constitutional rights when you travel to another state. From a practical standpoint, it would make a carry permit more like a drivers license. You don’t have to get a drivers license in every state you intend to visit. A drivers license is valid throughout the country. But you still have to follow the traffic laws of the state where you are driving, which contradicts: > > That’s not the way I understand how it is being designed. Like a drivers license, you will still have to follow the laws of wherever you are. I live in PA, and can legally carry in bars and banks. Some states don’t allow CC in banks, some don’t allow it in bars. A person would have to be aware of the specifics in each state he is visiting. But that’s still much better than simply being disallowed to carry when you cross the border into NY, NJ, MD, etc. A driver’s license can be suspended in one state. You ma still be able to drive just fine in 49 other states, but in that state in which it is suspended, you cannot. Will there be similar provisions to suspend people’s CC licenses if they violate the laws of a state? > [@Orwell](#): > > She crossed a bridge into NJ and foolishly told a cop who pulled her over for a traffic violation that she had a pistol in her car. She believed her PA license allowed her to carry in NJ. She was looking at many years behind bars before public outrage (and the governor) pressured the DA into not charging her. You say “foolishly” told the cop about the gun. I don’t know about philly or NJ, but in ohio, if you have a gun in the car, registered or not, CCW or not, and you don’t tell the cop, that’s what is foolish. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/22 "2017-04-27T17:14:24Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > But years behind bars is not a sane or appropriate penalty for crossing over a bridge. She didn’t hurt anyone, didn’t threaten anyone. It’s a damn shame when we have to fear the justice system because there are too many laws for people to reasonably be aware of, laws that make no sense, and police and prosecutors lack ordinary sense. What she was _actually_ facing was not “years behind bars”: > [@](#): > > Allen, 27, a phlebotomist, was indicted after her Oct. 1, 2013, arrest on charges of illegally bringing a concealed weapon into the state, and in September agreed to enter a pretrial intervention program. The program would have required her to give up her .380 caliber Bersa Thunder and complete 25 hours of community service to avoid jail time. But the governor thought that even this light a sentence was too much. Has he done this for anyone else that has broken this law? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/23 "2017-04-27T17:16:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Here’s the story: [Christie pardons woman arrested under gun law](http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20150403_Christie_pardons_Phila __mom_snagged_by_N_J__ gun_law.html) > > Unfortunately, I don’t really see how the reciprocity law would have helped in this case. From upthread: > > “This legislation would not override state laws governing the time, place or manner of carriage or establish national standards for concealed carry.” > > and from the article: > > “New Jersey’s gun laws - considered among the strictest by national standards - require that even weapons duly registered in the state be transported unloaded and locked in the vehicle’s trunk.” > > So even with the law passed, she still would have violated the state laws, with the same outcome. I don’t think you have that right. And I certainly don’t believe what reporters write in popular publications. In most states, if you DON’T have a carry license/permit to go from you house to a gunsmith or shooting range, or to your office. You need to put your unloaded gun in your trunk, or locked in a container, and the ammo needs to be in a separate container. And you must be going directly to or from your home, workplace, gunsmith, gun store or shooting range. If you DO have a carry permit, you can generally have a loaded gun within reach in the passenger compartment. Th reciprocity law does address what happened to this woman. She was legally allowed to carry a loaded gun in PA, but NJ does not recognize PA’s carry permit, so she was breaking the NJ law, inadvertently and unknowingly. If the law passes, NJ would have to recognize PA’s carry permit. She would still have to know whether or not she is allowed to carry into a bar, church, bank, etc., but she would be OK in her own car for sure. This is all as I understand it, based on having my carry permit in PA, and reading gun rights forums. I have not trudged through the bills, but will do so when I get a little time. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/24 "2017-04-27T17:20:13Z")
There are some differences between the House and Senate versions. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/25 "2017-04-27T17:21:45Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You say “foolishly” told the cop about the gun. I don’t know about philly or NJ, but in ohio, if you have a gun in the car, registered or not, CCW or not, and you don’t tell the cop, that’s what is foolish. OK, I was inserting my opinion. It varies by state. In PA, you don’t need to tell a cop that you are carrying. And I wouldn’t do so in a normal traffic stop. No need to have the word “gun” or “firearm” cross my lips and change the nature of the interaction. You also don’t have to notify a cop in NJ - not that very many people have a carry permit in NJ. But you are right that you are required to do so in OH. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/26 "2017-04-27T17:25:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What she was _actually_ facing was not “years behind bars”: > But the governor thought that even this light a sentence was too much. Has he done this for anyone else that has broken this law? From that same article: > [@](#): > > The Atlantic County Prosecutor’s Office originally denied the woman an opportunity to enter the diversionary program, indicating it wanted to use the case as a deterrent for people bringing guns not registered in New Jersey into the state. The state didn’t start off by allowing her to get a light sentence. From [The Ordeal of Shaneen Allen | National Review](http://www.nationalreview.com/article/383657/ordeal-shaneen-allen-editors) > [@](#): > > Allen drove into New Jersey’s Atlantic County and was pulled over by police for an “unsafe lane change.” When the detaining officer arrived at her car window, Allen informed him that she was carrying a concealed firearm, and presented her Pennsylvania carry license as proof of eligibility. Unbeknownst to her at the time, however, was that New Jersey is among the 20 states that do not recognize Pennsylvania’s permit. In consequence, she was arrested. If convicted of the charges that the state has elected to bring, she will be locked in prison for up to a decade. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/27 "2017-04-27T17:27:34Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > OK, I was inserting my opinion. It varies by state. In PA, you don’t need to tell a cop that you are carrying. And I wouldn’t do so in a normal traffic stop. No need to have the word “gun” or “firearm” cross my lips and change the nature of the interaction. > > You also don’t have to notify a cop in NJ - not that very many people have a carry permit in NJ. But you are right that you are required to do so in OH. Good to know, I was not aware that states varied so much, and would have though it required in all states to inform a cop that pulled you over that you were carrying a weapon. But, I assume that if I were to get a ccw, that sort of thing would be covered, at least for neighboring states that you are likely to enter. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/28 "2017-04-27T17:29:38Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > Th reciprocity law does address what happened to this woman. She was legally allowed to carry a loaded gun in PA, but NJ does not recognize PA’s carry permit, so she was breaking the NJ law, inadvertently and unknowingly. If the law passes, NJ would have to recognize PA’s carry permit. She would still have to know whether or not she is allowed to carry into a bar, church, bank, etc., but she would be OK in her own car for sure. Relevant NJ law states that all guns being transported “shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.” This AFAIU applies to NJ residents who have concealed carry license as well. She would have been in violation of this even with the reciprocity law in effect. ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/29 "2017-04-27T17:32:04Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Good to know, I was not aware that states varied so much, and would have though it required in all states to inform a cop that pulled you over that you were carrying a weapon. > But, I assume that if I were to get a ccw, that sort of thing would be covered, at least for neighboring states that you are likely to enter. I wouldn’t assume that at all. Most license courses are more about safe handling and reasonable accuracy. Some get into home state requirements, but I don’t believe most cover how the law varies from state to state. I find this to be a good resource if you wonder about laws in other states: > **[Handgunlaw.us](https://handgunlaw.us/)** > > The Internets Premier database for Concealed Carry Handgun and Firearms Law. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/30 "2017-04-27T17:33:02Z")
I don’t favor this law. It should be for states to set their own standards for carrying and licensing firearms. Of course, those standards must meet the minimum required by the Second Amendment, and I suspect this bill is an effort to clean sweep those states which do not. But that’s not the way to do things. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/31 "2017-04-27T17:36:39Z")
Does the Senate version also tack on the provision that allows a qualified individual to carry or possess a concealed handgun in a school zone and in federally owned lands that are open to the public, like the House version does? ---
**Author:** ![Orwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/dfb087/32.png) [@Orwell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Orwell)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/32 "2017-04-27T17:37:57Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Relevant NJ law states that all guns being transported “shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.” > > This AFAIU applies to NJ residents who have concealed carry license as well. She would have been in violation of this even with the reciprocity law in effect. I am not a NJ resident, so I could be mistaken. But my reading of that is what I stated before. “Guns being transported” is different from guns being carried with valid permit. “Transported” means being taken to and from ones home, work, shooting range, etc., as indicated in your quote. “Carried” means being loaded and on one’s person. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/33 "2017-04-27T17:46:59Z")
> [@Orwell](#): > > I am not a NJ resident, so I could be mistaken. But my reading of that is what I stated before. “Guns being transported” is different from guns being carried with valid permit. “Transported” means being taken to and from ones home, work, shooting range, etc., as indicated in your quote. “Carried” means being loaded and on one’s person. You may be right. IANAL, and the law is fairly convoluted. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/34 "2017-04-27T17:49:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t favor this law. > > It should be for states to set their own standards for carrying and licensing firearms. I’m not a big gun supporter by any means, but I’ve often wondered why all states don’t recognize other states’ CCW permits. Can you explain how this is different than all states recognizing other states’ drivers licenses? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/35 "2017-04-27T17:56:34Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m not a big gun supporter by any means, but I’ve often wondered why all states don’t recognize other states’ CCW permits. > > Can you explain how this is different than all states recognizing other states’ drivers licenses? I don’t believe there are any states out there that issue drivers licenses without some moderate level of testing of both the ability to drive and a fundamental knowledge of the laws. Can the same be said for the issuance of CCW permits? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/36 "2017-04-27T17:57:23Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I’m not a big gun supporter by any means, but I’ve often wondered why all states don’t recognize other states’ CCW permits. > > Can you explain how this is different than all states recognizing other states’ drivers licenses? I’m not an expert in this area, but I’m pretty confident that: A – there is no Federal law requiring states to recognize other states’ drivers licenses; B – states may not recognize a drivers license in all circumstances, for example, if State A requires that a driver be 17 before being licensed, and State B requires a driver be 15 before being licensed, the license for the 15 year old from State B need not be recognized in State A. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/37 "2017-04-27T17:59:36Z")
I am torn in several directions on this subject. I have an Ohio permit, which allows me to carry in about 30 states. It is inconvenient when passing through Illinois to have to separate gun and ammo. It is somewhat worse than inconvenient, IMO, to be unable to carry in my lovely hometown of Baltimore, MD when I visit. But my general inclination is that states ought to be able to decide a lot of things on their own. This results in situations like the somewhat ridiculous patchwork of liquor laws that we have in the US. My first inclination, even as a gun owner and CCW holder and user, is to think that the states ought to decide these things for themselves, regardless of the inconvenience to me. And then, (am I on my third hand yet?) I remember that we are talking about a constitutional right to keep and bear. Do I surrender that right when I cross a state line? I currently do. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/38 "2017-04-27T18:08:27Z")
It’s not just a question of equal standards/laws-it is also a question of what those standards/laws should be. IF we decide on a national standard, it matters if that standard is the lowest allowable by law, the most restrictive, or somewhere in between. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/39 "2017-04-27T18:15:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It’s not just a question of equal standards/laws-it is also a question of what those standards/laws should be. IF we decide on a national standard, it matters if that standard is the lowest allowable by law, the most restrictive, or somewhere in between. Yep. I am in favor of required training, so I would lean to the stricter side there, but would tend toward the lenient side on who can carry, where and when. I spent eight hours in a classroom and four hours on a range to qualify to apply for my Ohio permit. I didn’t start carrying a gun until I had spent an additional twenty hours at a range. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2017, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368/40 "2017-04-27T18:19:33Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Yep. I am in favor of required training, so I would lean to the stricter side there, but would tend toward the lenient side on who can carry, where and when. > > I spent eight hours in a classroom and four hours on a range to qualify to apply for my Ohio permit. I didn’t start carrying a gun until I had spent an additional twenty hours at a range. This law would allow someone from a state with little to no training requirements the same rights as you in your own state. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-carry-reciprocity-act-good-idea-or-not/785368.md?page=3)