# Concealed guns in national parks? Loaded weapons in wildlife refuges? Whaaa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301 "2009-05-22T15:50:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/461 "2009-05-29T15:22:18Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Well, it’s just that his name sounds like a command. ‘Scump up’ instead of ‘Scum pup’. So when I see it, I think of a subordinate acknowledging that he heard the order and is doing it. (Think of C3PO when Han Solo says, ‘Shut up!’ and C3PO says, ‘Shutting up, sir!’) > > So then **Scumpup** made a ‘fag’ comment. One definition is: > > I knew this because someone mentioned it in another thread recently. So I wanted to clarify that he meant it in that sense, rather than as a word for homosexual. The only word I could think of that was similar was ‘dogsbody’: > > (I knew this one from reading about Douglas Bader – DB, and remembering he was sometimes called ‘DogsBody’ on the radio.) > > As to his last, I was wooshed. Thanks, **Johnny**. I can’t help but to feel just a little disappointed. That’s alright. Peace, mangeorge Time for my heartfelt admonition: ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/462 "2009-05-29T17:46:52Z")
> [@meenie7](#): > > Eeep, Johnny L.A., just the description makes me nervous, because it involves that gun (I really don’t like that one, it looks like a machine gun to me, even though I know it’s not one.) I’m also not strong enough to handle that gun – I’m a girl, and I have weak wrists because I have carpal tunnel syndrome. He said he would have me shoot the .22 pistol which I think is a little gun – I don’t think I’ve seen that one, since he has so many now and they’re always locked up. I’m sure he’ll try to be safe with it but I guess I don’t trust myself not to freak out and do something wrong. How does anyone deal with that, really? It’s so much pressure, because it’s so dangerous. The short answer that I would give for your concerns, and basically what the others are telling you too, is that knowledge is power. Once you understand how the gun works you will be able to tell when it is dangerous, when it’s safe, and how to handle it safely. It’s intimidating because it is unknown. Have your dad start you with the .22 pistol. But girls/women shoot the AR-15 type weapons all the time. Any female joining the military qualifies on this weapon as part of the training. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/463 "2009-05-29T20:09:15Z")
Are you an actual girl, as in teenager, or a woman, as in “girl”? Girl seems awfully young to have carpal tunnel. Good luck with it anyway. Most times it can be fixed. Anyway, just go to the range with your dad without any plan to actually shoot the thing. You can watch others and hear the bang, (wear hearing protection) smell the smoke, and maybe even safely handle the gun. It’s all actually pretty exciting, at least at first. You’ll probably want to join in! 🆒 If he has a .22 rifle, try that. It’s a lot easier to handle and aim than a pistol, and there’ll be almost no recoil on your wrists. But if not, you’ll come away with a new experience and a much diminished fear of it all. And you’ll feel much braver over all. Most of all, be safe. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/464 "2009-05-29T21:57:17Z")
Just IMO, when I take people to the range who have never shot a weapon before, I introduce them to my Savage .22 bolt-action rifle. It has about the same recoil as a high-powered BB gun, is very quiet and non-startling, and a beginner can be fairly accurate with it. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/465 "2009-05-29T23:57:56Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Just IMO, when I take people to the range who have never shot a weapon before, I introduce them to my Savage .22 bolt-action rifle. It has about the same recoil as a high-powered BB gun, is very quiet and non-startling, and a beginner can be fairly accurate with it. There you go, **meenie7**. Hook up with **Una Persson** and go to the range. Sometimes things like this are easier without know-it-all dad along. And that’s from a know-it-all dad with two adult daughters (me). 😉 The bottom line is, of course, if you’re not interested, your not. No bad. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/466 "2009-05-30T00:12:16Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Just IMO, when I take people to the range who have never shot a weapon before, I introduce them to my Savage .22 bolt-action rifle. It has about the same recoil as a high-powered BB gun, is very quiet and non-startling, and a beginner can be fairly accurate with it. Bingo. It’s not like the .223 has no recoil at all. It does. (I’m rather suprised about people saying that the AR-15 has nearly no recoil. It’s not a 30-30 or .356 it sure isn’t a .22LR) I have a .22 single shot Winchester rifle that is perfect for this. I wonder if meenie7’s dad also has a .22 rifle? In any case, a rifle is the way to go for a new shooter. A pistol will just show you what a lousy shot you are. ---
**Author:** ![Stealth\_Potato](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Stealth\_Potato](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stealth_Potato)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/467 "2009-05-30T00:33:36Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Bingo. It’s not like the .223 has no recoil at all. It does. > > (I’m rather suprised about people saying that the AR-15 has nearly no recoil. It’s not a 30-30 or .356 it sure isn’t a .22LR) Well, maybe it’s because I’m pretty well accustomed to shooting the Mosin-Nagant (or the 12-gauge 18" Remington 870), but whenever I fire my AR-15 I barely notice anything. There’s definitely a gentle pushing sensation that is perhaps a fair bit stronger than the recoil from a .22LR pistol, but that’s about it. The weight of the rifle combined with the motion of the bolt carrier and the generous return spring soaks up most of the .223’s energy. It definitely has _some_ recoil, but it’s just not very noticeable compared to other weapons. This is especially true when I pick up the AR-15 after putting 40 rounds through the M44. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/468 "2009-05-30T00:38:20Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Bingo. It’s not like the .223 has no recoil at all. It does. > > (I’m rather suprised about people saying that the AR-15 has nearly no recoil. It’s not a 30-30 or .356 it sure isn’t a .22LR) > > I have a .22 single shot Winchester rifle that is perfect for this. I wonder if meenie7’s dad also has a .22 rifle? > > In any case, a rifle is the way to go for a new shooter. A pistol will just show you what a lousy shot you are. I fired a M-16 (USMC version) aboard ship while I was in the Navy (Vietnam). It certainly had little recoil. I held it pistol like and had no trouble with three-round bursts. In fact, it was pretty easy to place all three rounds in almost the same splash. The Thompson was a _lot_ more fun. 😛 I don’t think we want to start **meenie7** on that one. Of course she might surprise us all. Here’s something [special](http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1468575/submachine_gun_thompson_how_you_use_it/) just for you, **meenie7**. Show it to Pops. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/469 "2009-05-30T01:04:12Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Why can’t more people be like this about guns? Props to you, **meenie7.** Seriously. I mean, what am I going to get the agita about if people go all reasonable on us? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/470 "2009-05-30T01:15:30Z")
…in light of **zeriel’s** offer, I’ll reissue my offer to take anyone in/around the St. Louis area out to the range. Anheuser Busch sponsors an awesome, safe range out in the middle of their wildlife conservation area, with separate skeet and trap ranges, and pistol and rifle lanes. I don’t shoot skeet or trap, which limits my shotgun shooting to a “pattern board” (they don’t allow shotguns over on the rifle range as it has a tendency to rip the foam target backing to shreds). I have several “beginner” guns suitable for the first time handgun or rifle shooter, as well as extra “ears” and “eyes” for a couple of people. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/471 "2009-05-30T01:26:07Z")
And I make the same offer for anyone in the central Iowa area. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/472 "2009-05-30T03:30:06Z")
Cool. I may be misremembering. I’ve only shot the Colt AR-15 .223 on two different occasions. But it had a little more kick than I thought it would. I bring this up because my dear Wife was once invited to shoot a .44 mag many years ago. Before I met her. The um…. Friend gave her a Ruger Blackhawk and cocked it. Built up what it was going to take to shoot it and let her fire it. It was the biggest handgun ever! Suspense, suspense. Click. It was unloaded. She has been afraid of pistols ever since. ---
**Author:** ![meenie7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7993a0/32.png) [@meenie7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meenie7)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/473 "2009-05-30T03:31:52Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I have a .22 single shot Winchester rifle that is perfect for this. I wonder if meenie7’s dad also has a .22 rifle? I wasn’t sure if he did, but I asked him and I guess he does. I wrote down the guns he told me he had, to share with the people here who know what the heck these things are: Walther .22 pistol Glock 9mm pistol Kel-Tec 9mm pistol Colt .38 revolver Sig Sauer .380 pistol Sig Sauer .40 cal pistol Springfield Arms .45 (not sure if this is another pistol or a bigger gun) Mossberg semi-auto shotgun GSG .22 semi-auto rifle Bushmaster .223 cal semi-auto rifle Remington .308 rifle So I guess he has 11 guns now. Heh, I guess he’s where I got my collector’s urge from, except I collect dolls and postcards. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/474 "2009-05-30T03:36:23Z")
You’ll have a ball with the GSG. My 8 year old can handle it just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/475 "2009-05-30T03:41:25Z")
The GSG is a .22-caliber carbine based upon the German MP5 submachine gun. [Here’s a picture.](http://atwelltactical.com/images/GSG5.jpg) The Springfield Armory pistol is probably a 1911 like [this one](http://sgcusa.com/images/large/SA_1911_Loaded_Target_SS_PI9132LP_A.jpg), though it may also be an [XD](http://sgcusa.com/images/supporting_images_large/Springfield_Armory_XD_Tactical_45_B.jpg) which is a different sort of pistol entirely. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/476 "2009-05-30T03:52:10Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > … offer to take anyone in/around the St. Louis area out to the range. Do I hear anyone for Central Florida? I’ve never owned a gun, but there is a real chance I might feel the need to get one in the next year. The more guidance I can get the better. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/477 "2009-05-30T03:57:46Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Do I hear anyone for Central Florida? > > I’ve never owned a gun, but there is a real chance I might feel the need to get one in the next year. The more guidance I can get the better. Not central Florida but if you’re ever in the Tampa area I wouldn’t mind taking you shooting. I’ll provide the guns, ammo and protective gear, all you’ll need to do is pay for your range time which between is $10 to $15 depending on where we go shoot. ---
**Author:** ![meenie7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7993a0/32.png) [@meenie7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meenie7)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/478 "2009-05-30T05:06:27Z")
Thank you to all the people in the thread who have said reassuring things and offered information for my little hijack. I will be going to the indoor shooting range with my dad tomorrow, and I’ll report back if I ran away like a sissy girl or if I had fun killing some paper guys. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/479 "2009-05-30T06:20:43Z")
> [@Amp](#): > > Not central Florida but if you’re ever in the Tampa area I wouldn’t mind taking you shooting. I’ll provide the guns, ammo and protective gear, all you’ll need to do is pay for your range time which between is $10 to $15 depending on where we go shoot. Sending you a PM. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/480 "2009-05-30T14:05:10Z")
East Coast reporting. Anyone want to try Skeet, I’ll blow a weekend at Thunder Mountain. It’s in Jersey. Havn’t been there in a while, but my normal club has insurance issues that say no guests. (without long annoying complication) Have fun, Meenie! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301.md?page=25)