# Concealed guns in national parks? Loaded weapons in wildlife refuges? Whaaa? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 22, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301 "2009-05-22T15:50:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![meenie7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7993a0/32.png) [@meenie7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meenie7)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/481 "2009-05-30T22:24:08Z")
So, I just got back from the shooting range. I shot about 100 rounds with the Walther .22, which was hard for me to aim because you have to line up dots and such and that gives me double vision. I also tried out the .22 rifle, but it was hard to aim because, I think, my arms aren’t long enough. But, I also tried the .40 cal pistol, which my dad put a laser sight on…and I was awesome with that. If the target was a person, I would have killed him about 5 times, and it was hitting right where I aimed it. All in all it was fun, and I did make some decent shots with the .22 too, despite the trouble aiming. I feel much less nervous now, even though I did get hit in the face by brass a few times (I was wearing eye protection so it was okay, but startling.) ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/482 "2009-05-30T22:35:30Z")
> [@meenie7](#): > > All in all it was fun, and I did make some decent shots with the .22 too, despite the trouble aiming. I feel much less nervous now, even though I did get hit in the face by brass a few times (I was wearing eye protection so it was okay, but startling.) Yup, that’ll happen. Last time I took someone shooting was this cute little thing who loved to wear low cut tops to show off her ample… assets. I warned her not to wear anything low cut when we went to the range but she didn’t listen. Ended up doing the hot brass down my shirt dance. I offered to help her fish it out but she politely declined. Glad to hear you had fun. Keep it up and that nervousness will go away in no time. One of us… One of us… ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/483 "2009-05-30T22:58:58Z")
> [@meenie7](#): > > So, I just got back from the shooting range. I shot about 100 rounds with the Walther .22, which was hard for me to aim because you have to line up dots and such and that gives me double vision. I also tried out the .22 rifle, but it was hard to aim because, I think, my arms aren’t long enough. But, I also tried the .40 cal pistol, which my dad put a laser sight on…and I was awesome with that. If the target was a person, I would have killed him about 5 times, and it was hitting right where I aimed it. > > All in all it was fun, and I did make some decent shots with the .22 too, despite the trouble aiming. I feel much less nervous now, even though I did get hit in the face by brass a few times (I was wearing eye protection so it was okay, but startling.) Oh yeah, we forgot to mentiom the flying brass. That cam be annoying even to a seasoned shooter. Thanks for the timely update. And congrats on the .40. That’s pretty impressive, IMO. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/484 "2009-05-30T23:11:08Z")
Well and good **meenie**. You are now a safer and more educated person. It’s a bit odd isn’t it. My Wife is not a shooter, she simply does not enjoy it. That’s fine. I like shooting. My Wife does not. But my wife is practical too. If I told her that I was getting rid of the 8 firearms I (we) have, she would question why. And would probably suggest I keep them ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/485 "2009-05-31T00:56:43Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Well and good **meenie**. You are now a safer and more educated person. > > It’s a bit odd isn’t it. My Wife is not a shooter, she simply does not enjoy it. That’s fine. > > I like shooting. My Wife does not. > > But my wife is practical too. If I told her that I was getting rid of the 8 firearms I (we) have, she would question why. And would probably suggest I keep them That’s much better than someone who insists on going with you, then makes under-her-breath “ennnhhh” sounds the whole time. I assume she draws the line at bringing dead things home. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/486 "2009-05-31T03:32:18Z")
> [@meenie7](#): > > All in all it was fun, and I did make some decent shots with the .22 too, despite the trouble aiming. I feel much less nervous now, even though I did get hit in the face by brass a few times (I was wearing eye protection so it was okay, but startling.) Perfect time for another little on-topic Ranger anecdote. In Sequoia in 1990 there was a young girl who worked in Resource Management who wanted a field position which required a law enforcement commission. She made it through regional academy in Santa Rosa, CA in one piece, but unfortunately she just wasn’t cut out much for shooting a bad guy. Could barely even look at gun, much less handle one. When it came time for shotgun qualification, she fired one shot, threw the weapon on the ground, and ran away crying. As I’ve indicated before, this must be the noblest police force in existence anywhere on the planet. I think she eventually went on to work a few seasons in the Sequoia backcountry. Mercifully, she never had the misfortune of being involved in an armed confrontation. Not sure if there’s moral to this story, other than ‘if at first you don’t succeed…’ Let’s just say that you’re in good company if you feel somewhat intimidated by the really big guns. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/487 "2009-05-31T03:48:12Z")
Try not lining up the dots, but focusing on the target, and bringing the dots into line under it. You don’t have to see the dots, just the line they create. Oh! And for rifles, put the butt in the crook of your elbow. If you can’t reach the trigger comfortably with your trigger finger, it’s probably too long for you. And most importantly… was it fun? More fun than you thought it’d be? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/488 "2009-05-31T13:57:47Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > I assume she draws the line at bringing dead things home. 😛 I could hunt if I wanted too. Unfortunatly the dogs are the ones that bring dead things home. (deer bones in the bedroom [doggie door]) > [@Washoe](#): > > Perfect time for another little on-topic Ranger anecdote. In Sequoia in 1990 there was a young girl who worked in Resource Management who wanted a field position which required a law enforcement commission. She made it through regional academy in Santa Rosa, CA in one piece, but unfortunately she just wasn’t cut out much for shooting a bad guy. Could barely even look at gun, much less handle one. When it came time for shotgun qualification, she fired one shot, threw the weapon on the ground,… My Mom always liked plinking with .22s. We then introduced her to skeet shooting. First time out, first shot, she got it. She never fired again. She is one of the few people that can say that she is 100% ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/489 "2009-05-31T14:17:01Z")
I have absolutely zero interest in hunting. I had a lot of opportunity when I was young, even went out a few times, but didn’t have the heart to kill. my last kill was a sparrow on a wire when I was about twelve. Aside from all that, it seems like an awful lot of trouble when I can pick up a nice tender flatiron at the butcher, all ready for the skillet. 🆒 Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/490 "2009-05-31T15:52:48Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > I have absolutely zero interest in hunting. I had a lot of opportunity when I was young, even went out a few times, but didn’t have the heart to kill. my last kill was a sparrow on a wire when I was about twelve. > Aside from all that, it seems like an awful lot of trouble when I can pick up a nice tender flatiron at the butcher, all ready for the skillet. > 🆒 > Peace, > mangeorge I made a prime rib last night. 11lbs. Man oh man was it good. Gonna make barley soup from the bones today. Anywho, as long as this is hi-jacked beyond repair, what is up with ammo availability? I’ve called 5 stores and none of them have .38sp or .357mag. That’s like a hardware store being out of nails. What’s going on? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/491 "2009-05-31T15:59:51Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Anywho, as long as this is hi-jacked beyond repair, what is up with ammo availability? I’ve called 5 stores and none of them have .38sp or .357mag. That’s like a hardware store being out of nails. > > What’s going on? Panic buying. Actually, surplus 5.56mm has been getting more expensive for the past several years. Apparently it’s needed elsewhere. But the recent shortage conincided closely with the election of Obama. People are all like, ‘He’s gonnna take uhr guns!’ So they’ve been stocking up, buying as much of _everything_ that they can get. People (the same type who still believe Obama is a Muslim, not a U.S. citizen, and will turn the U.S. into Soviet Russia) are still convinced that a gun-grab is imminent. But I did read this post at a gun forum: > [@](#): > > Today in Three Rivers, Michigan I visited both Walmart and Meijer to find the usual-No Ammo. > > I ended up at Dunhams Sporting Goods. There they had Pistol Ammo of all caliber’s-9mm, .40S&W, .380 & 45Acp. 38 special in 250 round bulk packs. Had others too and a lot of boxes. > > There ammo wasn’t priced much higher than Walmart’s. I purchased $300.00 worth. I asked the clerk" WOW when did you folks get Ammo?" She said" Four days or so ago". I said" No one bought it all up yet?" She said “Nope and a lot of people have looked at it and ended up buying other stuff.” > > Everyone is so stocked up and hoarding a good supply now, that the market is dramatically cooling off. > > Watch all the stores fill up now and have a glutton of stock in the next 6 months. > > Gun/ammo boom is going to be like the housing market. About to Bust! ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/492 "2009-05-31T16:21:14Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I made a prime rib last night. 11lbs. Man oh man was it good. Gonna make barley soup from the bones today. > > Anywho, as long as this is hi-jacked beyond repair, what is up with ammo availability? I’ve called 5 stores and none of them have .38sp or .357mag. That’s like a hardware store being out of nails. > > What’s going on? Prime rib is my favorite, but I’m single, so I have to rely on restaurants. Skates is close, and pretty good. Nice view of SF Bay. I used to roast salt encrusted prime rib on my Weber. Cooks for about five hours, very slow. Damn. it was good I _need_ a wife. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/493 "2009-05-31T16:31:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Panic buying. Actually, surplus 5.56mm has been getting more expensive for the past several years. Apparently it’s needed elsewhere. But the recent shortage conincided closely with the election of Obama. People are all like, ‘He’s gonnna take uhr guns!’ So they’ve been stocking up, buying as much of _everything_ that they can get. People (the same type who still believe Obama is a Muslim, not a U.S. citizen, and will turn the U.S. into Soviet Russia) are still convinced that a gun-grab is imminent. But I did read this post at a gun forum: I called the Sports Athority store back and he said all he had was shot gun shells. I figured panic buying too. But the fellow at the store said that everything had been re-tooled for 9mm and .223 and all the brass powder and lead was going to Iraq. :dubious: If it’s panic buying, why are shot gun shells still available? This is just silly. This thread prompted me to ask my cousin if she wanted to go shooting. She’s hinted for a while that she would like too. And I can’t find any ammo. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/494 "2009-05-31T16:48:12Z")
I just checked cheaper than dirt. Same story, out of stock and no back order. Just how many commies do these hoarders expect to come streaming over the borders? Wait, it’e not commies anymore, it’s “terrorists”. I’m gettin’ old. 😉 A thought; there might be some ammo at your local range. They don’t sell in bulk, usually. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/495 "2009-05-31T16:54:08Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > A thought; there might be some ammo at your local range. They don’t sell in bulk, usually. And the price is usually double of what you would pay at Wal-Mart or similiar place. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/496 "2009-05-31T17:06:16Z")
> [@Amp](#): > > And the price is usually double of what you would pay at Wal-Mart or similiar place. I thought you guys wanted some ammo! 😉 Actually, the prices at my range (Chabot Gun Club) are pretty close to those at my local Big 5 store. And I’ve totally lost faith in Walmart, due to their bulk .22lr. I also have a problem with them politically. So I may be biased. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/497 "2009-05-31T19:45:46Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > And I’ve totally lost faith in Walmart, due to their bulk .22lr. Could you elaborate? What’s wrong with it? ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/498 "2009-05-31T20:56:37Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I called the Sports Athority store back and he said all he had was shot gun shells. Price has gone up a bit, too, but, yeah, my 12 gauge has plenty to eat. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/499 "2009-05-31T21:35:43Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Could you elaborate? What’s wrong with it? Well, I had a nice, concise reply for you, but it went bye bye. Let me just say I had a lot of FTFs, 10-35 per bulk (550 round) box in three different guns. I _think_ they were Winchester. Same guns, Wolf Match ammo, no FTFs. I haven’t been to the range in around a year. I’m on my right now to re-up. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![meenie7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7993a0/32.png) [@meenie7](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meenie7)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301/500 "2009-05-31T23:11:04Z")
The gun store where the shooting range is is very low on ammo as well. My dad has been buying it online. I can ask him what sites he’s found what kinds on if you want. He’s got tons of it (except he’s out of 9mm ammo for his Glock, but he didn’t seem annoyed like he couldn’t get more.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concealed-guns-in-national-parks-loaded-weapons-in-wildlife-refuges-whaaa/497301.md?page=24)