# Conceivable circumstances where U.S. military oath would sanction a coup? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 6, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156 "2009-04-06T19:26:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/41 "2009-04-10T00:55:06Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I’m a little bit ashamed to admit that I’ve read many of the stories published on Literotica; most, but not all, of the authors are practically illiterate. I can’t think of a less likely place to encounter rational political discussions. 😃 I know. That’s what makes political argument there such a guilty pleasure. Quite a change from this place – not because Litsters are less intelligent/sophisticated/rational than Dopers, but because they generally found that board for different reasons from those for which one generally finds this one, and because there are no forum rules at all, at all, that I can determine. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/42 "2009-04-10T01:01:42Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > [hijack (temporary I hope)] > What is the never ending deal and preoccupation with Obama’s citizenship? In the context of this thread, it is attractive because it is almost the only way soldiers could tell themselves their honor and oath require them to participate in a coup. Their oath is to the Constitution, which names the POTUS as their CinC, but if he’s not **constitutionally** the POTUS . . . ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/43 "2009-04-10T02:02:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If there’s a cure worse than the disease, that’s it. There are many countries in the world where the military, even if it does not rule, is an independent political force in its own right, to which civil government must carefully listen regarding matters not strictly military; and it is never a beneficial force. We have always managed to avoid that in America. The U.S. military has never challenged or questioned its absolute subordination to civil authority. It would require circumstances far, far more outrageous than you’re describing to risk tampering with that record. I absolutely agree. If the President holds power illegitimately, whether due to constitutional ineligibility, vote fraud, assassination or what have you, there are several legitimate means of removing him from power. A military coup will never, _ever_ be one of them, as it does not fall to the military to determine who is CINC. The subordination of the military to civil authority is a bedrock element of modern constitutional democracy. I seriously cannot envision any remotely likely scenario in which the U.S. military would either sanction or carry out a coup. The day it did would be the day that American democracy was badly, probably fatally, wounded. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/44 "2009-04-10T02:15:17Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I have in fact heard from one of the conservatives at the church I half-heartedly attend that several Army officers have agreed not to follow Obama’s orders if he (I forget what the condition was, maybe it was refusing to prove his citzenship). > > I can’t find reference to this meme online, but similar references include [this](http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/us_world/US-Soldier-Calls-Obama-an-Impostor.html?corder=&pg=7), which tells us a Lieutenant in Iraq has claimed he won’t follow any more orders because Obama is an “imposter”, and [this](http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=91530) in which a guy claims he’s had thousands of soldiers agree to his pledge to disobey if Obama institutes any program requiring the disarming or detention of American citizens. (Or something like that.)… Any member of the U.S. military doing this needs to stow that shit ASAP, or be assured of finding himself very quickly before a court-martial. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/45 "2009-04-13T20:35:10Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > What program are you referring to? BrianGlutton, I’ll second the call on this. What is the site that you are reading that “seriously” states that the military will be involved in a coup against this President. I’d be interested in seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/46 "2009-04-13T23:01:44Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > BrianGlutton, > > I’ll second the call on this. What is the site that you are reading that “seriously” states that the military will be involved in a coup against this President. I’d be interested in seeing it. Link in post #28; caveat in post #30. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/47 "2009-04-14T16:05:08Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > What program are you referring to? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Link in post #28; caveat in post #30. BrianGlutton, Seriously, this is what you based this thread on?? You found a reply on a tread of that bastion of political and international relations thought called, literotica - literotica for Christ sake - (. . . And in other news, the President, after consulting the State Department, the Joint Chiefs and the literotica brain trust, has decided to annex the red light district of Amsterdam. . . ) -and based on this, you argue that the “angry right-wingers argue, seriously, that the military will never go along with Obama?” This statement was: “Primarily you assume that the military, whose oath is to the constitution not the president, may not have different ideas.” I’m active duty military. And I know some right wingers. They wouldn’t think for a millisecond of disobeying an order from the President, let alone to stage a coup. I know you strive to find any way to assault those that think anything to the right of Bill Clinton, but this is a stretch, even for you. There is a name for this. It’s called obsession. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/48 "2009-04-14T16:26:21Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Naw…they will just rant and rave and then probably talk about impeachment for a couple of years while seriously discussing his plans to make himself _ **God King** _ of the US or attacking Iran… > > Woops…wrong President. Kind of funny though how things have turned around, ehe? 😛 > > -XT President O is Posleen? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/49 "2009-04-15T05:13:19Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > I’m active duty military. And I know some right wingers. They wouldn’t think for a millisecond of disobeying an order from the President, let alone to stage a coup. How would you characterize those mentioned in **Frylock’s** links? Outliers unworthy of serious attention? ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/50 "2009-04-15T13:16:18Z")
> [@](#): > > **spifflog** > I’m active duty military. And I know some right wingers. They wouldn’t think for a millisecond of disobeying an order from the President, let alone to stage a coup. Glad (though not surprised) to hear it, but beside the point, I think. I don’t think **BrainGlutton** is claiming that any military personnel are actually considering staging a coup (though **Frylock** ’s links suggest their might be one or two). His point, rather, is that certain (presumably) civilian wingnuts are openly fantasizing about this, hoping for it, and perhaps even doing what they can (not much, in reality, I imagine) to encourage it. I do not have any specific evidence to back **BrainGlutton** ’s claim, but frankly, given the level of anti-Obama crazy I have heard of from the far right recently, I would be surprised if some of them were not fantasizing and talking about this. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/51 "2009-04-15T13:42:16Z")
> [@](#): > > **BrainGlutton** > There are many countries in the world where the military, even if it does not rule, is an independent political force in its own right, to which civil government must carefully listen regarding matters not strictly military; and it is never a beneficial force. In Turkey maybe? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/52 "2009-04-15T14:24:48Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > In Turkey maybe? The Turkish military staged coups d’etat in [1960,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) [1971,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) [1980,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) and [1997.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1997_Turkish_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat) I can’t see how any of them did the Republic any good. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2009, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156/53 "2009-04-15T18:34:48Z")
[Sean Hannity recently posted an online poll asking responders if they endorse a military coup, armed rebellion, or war of secession.](http://www.stinque.com/2009/03/01/how-to-punish-hannity-for-coup-provocation-nail-him-to-a-swastika/) (Results not available, the poll has been taken down. Not clear if “None of the above” was an option.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conceivable-circumstances-where-u-s-military-oath-would-sanction-a-coup/492156.md?page=2)