# Concerned about getting a black or foreign doctor? Make sure to use www.whitedoctor.org! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 14, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936 "2010-02-14T06:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/21 "2010-02-14T19:36:22Z")
> [@astro](#): > > This thread is fascinating. I honestly thought I get a lot of “Yow! What a crazy double standard in 2010!”, but instead there’s a of lot of “Yeah I can see why having a same sex, same race doctor would be important.” > > A lot of otherwise progressive people get extremely exercised when race, sex, or cultural differentiation are used as the basis for social preference … except when it comes their choice of who gets to put their hands on them and treat them. Then it’s A-OK for it to be all about who they are “comfortable” with racially and gender-wise. I think it’s because race is linked with culture, and culture is linked with interpersonal relationships–which are kind of important when we’re discussing healthcare. I’ve gone to more white doctors than black (in fact, as an adult, I’ve only seen one black doctor), but I can totally understand why someone, particularly a member of a stigmitized minority group, would seek out someone who they perceive as being from their same culture. To explain further, there are some medical conditions that can be attributed to one’s cultural upbringing or genetic factors common to specific ethnic groups. Compare these two statements: “Because you’re in group X, you’re at high risk for blankety-blank disease” and “Because we’re both in group X, we’re at high risk for blankety-blank disease.” On the surface, they read very similarly. But one statement reminds one of their “otherness” while the other doesn’t. Little things like this can make a difference to one’s comfort level. Perhaps the same can be said for gender as well. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/22 "2010-02-14T19:38:14Z")
> [@astro](#): > > A lot of otherwise progressive people get extremely exercised when race, sex, or cultural differentiation are used as the basis for social preference … except when it comes their choice of who gets to put their hands on them and treat them. Then it’s A-OK for it to be all about who they are “comfortable” with racially and gender-wise. It’s not merely a matter of comfort, it’s more a matter of knowing one’s own. An African-American doctor is more likely than a white doctor to focus on the specific medical concerns of the African-American community, emphasizing screenings and treatments in a non-judgmental and thoughtful way, unlike the doctor I had who reminded me the two times I saw him that I was “more likely” to have hypertension because I’m black, and I needed to “watch it” with the “fried chicken and things like that.” Yes, he said that. There’s a higher chance of understanding of the demographics of the African-American community, not asking ridiculous questions like, for example, “why aren’t you married?” of an African-American woman, when the majority of us are not married and a stunning percentage of us will _never_ marry. (I’ve been asked that, by a clueless ob-gyn resident.) They’re also more likely to understand, for example, what it means if they ask a patient “how long have you had this symptom?” and the patient responds “oh, just about a minute.” That’s not even touching the loaded and frequently ugly issues of lingering societal considerations regarding white opinions and considerations of black bodies. There are some places where one really needs a break from dealing with at least a portion of the messy inteference of the [kyriarchy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyriarchy). ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/23 "2010-02-14T19:54:00Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > That’s not even touching the loaded and frequently ugly issues of lingering societal considerations regarding white opinions and considerations of black bodies. There are some places where one really needs a break from dealing with at least a portion of the messy inteference of the [kyriarchy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyriarchy). So… discrimination based on race or sex is bad, except when it come to something that’s important to you and your social comfort? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/24 "2010-02-14T20:16:08Z")
> [@astro](#): > > So… discrimination based on race or sex is bad, except when it come to something that’s important to you and your social comfort? If you’re sick, which is when you’re most likely to go to a doctor, are you going to care more about your own comfort or being politically correct? Sounds like a no-brainer to me. In an ideal world, people would feel comfortable going to a doctor of any race, gender, or sexual preference. But also in an ideal world, we wouldn’t have doctors who have blackface minstrel characters on their office walls, or doctors who tell black patients to stay away from “the fried chicken and things like that”, or doctors who don’t take your complaints seriously because you fit the profile of an angry, hysterical woman. Sure, going to someone who looks like you doesn’t ensure that you’ll get better treatment. But at least you won’t have to risk stepping in gender and racial shit when you’re at your weakest. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/25 "2010-02-14T20:22:15Z")
> [@astro](#): > > So… discrimination based on race or sex is bad, except when it come to something that’s important to you and your social comfort? Faulty premise. Not all discrimination is de facto negative. This isn’t simply about skin color, where X is good and Y is bad. this is about seeking the most suitable _partner_ in a professional relationship where one’s _life_ is at stake. If you can’t understand the difference between “I want to entrust my care to someone who is likely to have a stronger understanding of me, my culture and the impact that has on my health” and “you can’t do this thing because you’re black and therefore we don’t want you” I’m not sure I can help you. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/26 "2010-02-14T20:39:57Z")
It’s only really discrimination if they would willing refuse care from a white doctor if no other was available to treat them. I would posit that would not be the case. This is about choice. They live in America where one can choose, do I want a woman/man doctor, foreign born/my race, etc? Women were pretty appreciative of being able to discuss their most intimate issues with another female, (some, not all), and I could see the same being true of various ethnicity’s. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/27 "2010-02-14T20:40:13Z")
I have a question for you, **astro**. The conversation so far has been limited to medicine, but I’d like to extend it to something a little more touchy-feely, like psychotherapy. Let’s say you’re dealing with heavy issues and you know you’ll be in therapy for some time. And you’re presented with two doctors who work within walking distance to you, an important criteria to you: a white guy around your age or a black woman around your age. Both are similarly crendentialed and experienced and have the same patient satisfaction scores (or whatever they’re called). What criteria do you use to choose which doctor might be better suited for you? Do you pick a name out of hat, or do you make a targeted selection? Because I know for me, I would go with the black woman doctor. I might hate her, and then I’ll try the dude, or I’ll get a car and expand my search radius, but my first instinct would be to go with the person I feel I’d share the most in common with. At least on a superficial level. Just to save time and energy. How about you? ---
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/28 "2010-02-14T20:59:28Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Well what are you saying? Black people --even when income, insurance or access, etc are not factors-- statistically receive worse medical care than their white, comparable peers. Racism, overt or otherwise, may be a factor. Is this to say that this only occurs in white doctor/black patient relationships? Do black people, on average, receive worse care from white doctors than they do from black doctors? Or is there overall lower standard of care independent of the race of their doctor? In either case, it does not mean race is not a factor. Black doctors are not immune to prejudices toward other black people. The data for outcomes looking at subsets where doctor patient race is congruous vs. incongruous either does not exist or I can’t find it. I’ve never said that black doctors are immune from bias against black patients. The point I’m making is that I can see a black person thinking he loses nothing by choosing a physician of the same race. The disparities are either caused predominantly by subconscious racial bias of non-black physicians, in which case he is better off with a black physician; or it’s a systemic bias affecting both black and non-black physicians, in which case he’s likely just as screwed with a black doctor as with a non-black doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/29 "2010-02-14T21:04:21Z")
> [@](#): > > As for the race or ethnicity of a physician - as long as I can understand what they say and I feel like they understand what I say, I’m fine. But when I have to ask the same question three times trying to figure out what the doc is telling me, that’s not good. I don’t think you’re a racist if you can’t communicate with a doctor because of a language or accent issue. My maiden name is not Anglo in the slightest, and yet I’m fairly reluctant to see a doctor with an Indian (dots not feathers, as the saying goes) last name. While many of them speak English as a first language, their pronunciation and the way they accent their syllables is sometimes VERY difficult for me to understand. A great deal of doctoring is imparting information, and if a doctor can’t do this effectively, then s/he is not really a good doctor, no matter what his/her other skills and abilities are. And it’s not just Indian doctors. I used to go to a clinic that had a female doctor who was born and raised in France, and who had a heavy French accent. After several rushed visits which mainly consisted of her babbling at me in unintelligible English, and then having her rush to see another patient, I finally refused to make an appointment with her. I told the front office staff that I would wait, if necessary, to see another doctor, because this French woman was not able to treat me effectively. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/30 "2010-02-14T21:33:41Z")
> [@Crawlspace](#): > > The data for outcomes looking at subsets where doctor patient race is congruous vs. incongruous either does not exist or I can’t find it. > > I’ve never said that black doctors are immune from bias against black patients. The point I’m making is that I can see a black person thinking he loses nothing by choosing a physician of the same race. The disparities are either caused predominantly by subconscious racial bias of non-black physicians, in which case he is better off with a black physician; or it’s a systemic bias affecting both black and non-black physicians, in which case he’s likely just as screwed with a black doctor as with a non-black doctor. I would suppose that the point of choosing a black physician would be to avoid the “subconscious racial bias of non-black physicians” which would lead to poorer care. Otherwise, i.e. if there is a systematic bias among all races, specifically selecting black doctors in order to avoid biases leading to lower-quality care is pointless. I believe that was **Rover** ’s point. I’m not going to (for now) argue whether or not there is merit in choosing a doctor who you feel can relate to you on a more personal level, be it based on race, gender, or where you went to high school. I simply wanted to echo the point(/question?) that discrimination, whether explicit or implicit or any other shade of grey, may be entirely independent of whether or not the parties involved are of different races. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/31 "2010-02-14T22:19:40Z")
**astro** , you’re looking at this from the wrong angle. While there’ve been some revealing expressions of bigotry in this thread, elicited by your OP, they also miss the point. The reason a minority patient might prefer a like-minority doctor is not simple prejudice. It’s the anticipation of prejudice on the doctor’s part. I’m sure a lot of minority patients come away from a white doctor with the feeling that the doctor has a reluctance, however slight, to fully engage with them as a patient. Leaving aside cultural or racial medical issues, which are not unimportant, the feeling that a white doctor is prejudiced against you is reason enough, I would think, to seek out a like-minority doctor in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/32 "2010-02-14T22:51:48Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Well, that’s the trade off. > > Us white people got 300 years worth of free labor. Now, in return, black folks get things like [blackdoctors.com](http://blackdoctors.com) and they get to call each other “nigga” when we can’t. > > Yeah, sounds like a fair trade off. > > We’re even now. Free labor? Those slaves cost money! ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/33 "2010-02-14T23:40:16Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > **astro** , you’re looking at this from the wrong angle. While there’ve been some revealing expressions of bigotry in this thread, elicited by your OP, they also miss the point. **The reason a minority patient might prefer a like-minority doctor is not simple prejudice. It’s the anticipation of prejudice on the doctor’s part.** I’m sure a lot of minority patients come away from a white doctor with the feeling that the doctor has a reluctance, however slight, to fully engage with them as a patient. Leaving aside cultural or racial medical issues, which are not unimportant, the feeling that a white doctor is prejudiced against you is reason enough, I would think, to seek out a like-minority doctor in the future. But I don’t think that feeling is something that should be catered to. That feeling is as much responsible for the persistence of the idea that there is racism as is actual racism itself. I didn’t say that very well. The idea, which was expressed very well by my very feminist female sociology of gender prof in undergrad, is that it’s hard to measure racism without also measuring perceptions of racism. That is, it is possible that I could walk down the street and say “hello” to a black person, and that person, when interviewed later about the situation, could say that I acted differently towards them because they are black. Also, as a final unrelated thought, it’s interesting that “race” exists in this thread. In other threads here on the SDMB, a certain segment of posters will swear up and down that “race” is bullshit and doesn’t really exist as an identifiable way to separate people (especially when IQ or g comes up). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/34 "2010-02-14T23:43:28Z")
> [@astro](#): > > The website [http://www.blackdoctor.org/index2.aspx](http://www.blackdoctor.org/index2.aspx) makes sure you have a black doctor available for your black needs. Don’t we need a place where white people can be sure they will get a _white doctor_ sensitive to their white needs, because everyone knows you need a doctor the same color and culture as you are. Go ahead and start one. Nobody is stopping you. Knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/35 "2010-02-14T23:46:19Z")
DtC, the OP is obviously about the different perception people would have of [www.whitedoctors.org](http://www.whitedoctors.org) than [www.blackdoctors.org](http://www.blackdoctors.org). People would be up in arms and assume it was started by and caters to racist. Many ISPs probably wouldn’t host it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/36 "2010-02-14T23:49:47Z")
> [@astro](#): > > So… discrimination based on race or sex is bad, except when it come to something that’s important to you and your social comfort? This is not an example of discrimination. Even if a white person only wants to be examned by a white doctor (I had a grandmother who refused to be examined by non-white doctors), that’s not discrimination, because the doctor isn’t being deprived of anything. Can you explain how you believe anybody is being injured or wronged by something like this? ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/37 "2010-02-14T23:50:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I have a question for you, **astro**. > > The conversation so far has been limited to medicine, but I’d like to extend it to something a little more touchy-feely, like psychotherapy. Let’s say you’re dealing with heavy issues and you know you’ll be in therapy for some time. And you’re presented with two doctors who work within walking distance to you, an important criteria to you: a white guy around your age or a black woman around your age. Both are similarly crendentialed and experienced and have the same patient satisfaction scores (or whatever they’re called). > > What criteria do you use to choose which doctor might be better suited for you? Do you pick a name out of hat, or do you make a targeted selection? > > Because I know for me, I would go with the black woman doctor. I might hate her, and then I’ll try the dude, or I’ll get a car and expand my search radius, but my first instinct would be to go with the person I feel I’d share the most in common with. At least on a superficial level. Just to save time and energy. > > How about you? You see, I’d go the exact opposite route. I’d probably pick the black female because she could possibly bring something new to the table. If I’m seeing a doctor for _anything_, I want a cure first and empathy second. In fact, if I’m the one to blame for my condition, empathy is the last thing I want. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/38 "2010-02-14T23:55:11Z")
White doctors practice like _this_… and black doctors practice like _this_! Yeah, y’all know I’m right! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/39 "2010-02-14T23:55:52Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > DtC, the OP is obviously about the different perception people would have of [www.whitedoctors.org](http://www.whitedoctors.org) than [www.blackdoctors.org](http://www.blackdoctors.org). People would be up in arms and assume it was started by and caters to racist. Many ISPs probably wouldn’t host it. I know what the OP is saying. I’m saying no one would give a shit about “[whitedoctor.org](http://whitedoctor.org).” No one would be up in arms. I sure wouldn’t care. I don’t think it would find much of a following, though. Having said that, it’s disingenuous in the extreme to pretend the motivations would be the same, just as it always in when people try to cry “double-standard” at stuff like this. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/40 "2010-02-14T23:59:45Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I know what the OP is saying. I’m saying no one would give a shit about “[whitedoctor.org](http://whitedoctor.org).” No one would be up in arms. I sure wouldn’t care. I don’t think it would find much of a following, though. > Having said that, it’s disingenuous in the extreme to pretend the motivations would be the same, just as it always in when people try to cry “double-standard” at stuff like this. Uh . . . what? Your post is the perfect example of proving the opposite of one’s point. The first part says “no one would think it was racist” and the second part says “of course, that site would only be started by a racist.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936.md?page=3)