# Concerned about getting a black or foreign doctor? Make sure to use www.whitedoctor.org! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [February 14, 2010, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936 "2010-02-14T06:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/81 "2010-02-16T15:25:18Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > You still refuse to acknowledge the context. Life is context. Things are connected to other things. No man is an island; pick your formulation. If you do not take context into account, you go through life like a blindered horse or a Libertarian. OK. Here are two ways that a white patient could favor a white doctor based on the context and not based on a belief that non-white people are inherently inferior: 1. Med schols are huge into afformative action for admission. By picking a white male non-Jewish non-Hispanic doctor, a patient decreases the chances of having a doctor that barely made it into medical school. 2. Similar to the minority perception idea you mentioned above, many white people have a perception that non-whites often perceive them as racists. A white patient could conceivably not want to cloud his relationship with his doctor by the possibility of the doctor perceiving the patient as thinking the doctor is inferior to the patient based on the doctor’s race. Therefore, users of [www.whitedoctors.org](http://www.whitedoctors.org) could be using it for one of the above non-racist and context-based reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/82 "2010-02-16T16:03:08Z")
Fuck, that is some desperate shit. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/83 "2010-02-16T16:12:51Z")
Desperate? What am I desperate to do exactly? You are the one that seems desperate. You are desperate to show that all white people believe non-whites are inferior. You do this to support your political opinion that we need government programs that give stuff to non-white people to combat this. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/84 "2010-02-16T16:21:52Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Which, interestingly, is the exact same premise that [white power separatists](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_nationalism)operate from. Personal self-preservation, that is, an individual doing what is best for her or himself, has nothing to do with racial separatist movements. Is this honestly the best you can do? > [@Bricker](#): > > Looking for a cite for this. [Last year, from the Journal of General Internal Medicine](http://pubget.com/paper/pgtmp_1d3ecf6c0689ba24ce512666b23f89cc?title=Physician%20Respect%20for%20Patients%20with%20Obesity). ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/85 "2010-02-16T18:39:54Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > OK. Here are two ways that a white patient could favor a white doctor based on the context and not based on a belief that non-white people are inherently inferior: > > 1. Med schols are huge into afformative action for admission. By picking a white male non-Jewish non-Hispanic doctor, a patient decreases the chances of having a doctor that barely made it into medical school. What does affirmative action (btw, you mistyped it) has to do with getting licensed as a doctor? Why are you so focused on how someone got into med school? If they are licensed, if they passtheir boards, none of which depend or rely on affirmative action, but instead on cold harsh numbers, then they’re qualified to practice. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/86 "2010-02-16T20:48:53Z")
Right, they are minimally qualified to practice. Some people prefer doctors who are more than minimally qualified. Some of these people think that whether the doctor barely got in to med school with help due to their race/gender or was the top entrant is relevant to how qualified the doctor is. Still waiting for Dio to explain my desperation. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/87 "2010-02-16T21:45:09Z")
I come from a veterinary medicine background, but I’ve heard and seem the same with my friends who followed medicine… What you were, if you were the top entrant or not does not matter the most… What matters is what you learn in (vet) med school, what you get out of it and of your residencies. Do you really care if someone was straight A’s in undergrad when they are struggling to come up with a diagnosis? First of all, nobody knows who the top entrants of the class are, unless they reaaaaally dig around… And for what? It is a clean slate again. You do realize there is inherent racism when you immediately think that because of the last name or skin color, that person HAD to have entered only through affirmative action, and not be among the “top entrants”. Also, I’m curious about the talk for affirmative action in medical schools. The only thing similar in veterinary schools are quota arrangements between states, so that x% of the entering class in state A is composed of students from state B. Personally, I don’t think neither medicine nor veterinary medicine requires THAT MUCH intellectual difficulty, and to put it in a pedestal like that is harming the profession. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/88 "2010-02-16T23:17:05Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Right, they are minimally qualified to practice. Some people prefer doctors who are more than minimally qualified. Other than race… what other qualifications are you using to judge if they’re minimally qualified in their practice? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/89 "2010-02-16T23:37:59Z")
:dubious: indeed. You guys need to re-read my posts, my answers would just be repeating myself. ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/90 "2010-02-16T23:51:50Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Right, they are minimally qualified to practice. Some people prefer doctors who are more than minimally qualified. In which case you should look at where they did their residency and fellowship training, rather than worry about how marginally they made it into medical school. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/91 "2010-02-16T23:59:51Z")
What do you mean by “you”? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/92 "2010-02-17T01:24:33Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What do you mean by “you”? What do YOU mean by “you”? :dubious: /Tropic Thunder ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/93 "2010-02-17T14:48:00Z")
Dio, you going to explain yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/94 "2010-02-17T18:28:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > What do you mean by “you”? To whom is this question addressed? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/95 "2010-02-17T18:41:49Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I really don’t understand what the hell affirmative action and admission to med school has to do with this thread. > > Every single licensed and boarded doctor in the US have to have passed a battery of exams, tests, and certifications to obtain those licenses and credentials. And none of those depend on affirmative action. So every licensed and boarded doctor (not that they’re all boarded anyway) has exactly the same capacity and aptitude at practicing medicine? standardized testing and government/professional licensing caters to a least common denominator - it’s not really evidence of anything except minimum competency. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/96 "2010-02-17T18:48:36Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > As someone who _does_ I can tell you quite concretely that yes, that feeling should be catered to in certain aspects of life. When it’s someone who will be seeing me unclothed, who will be learning intimate details of my life and whom I have to trust to provide me with information that could be, ultimately, the difference between life and death, then my perception of the possibility of being mistreated because I’m female or because I’m black or because I’m Jewish or even because of my health history or the shape of my body (given that health care providers overwhelmingly admit to bias against and outright disgust over fat patients) then it makes no sense to _not_ take the potential for bias against me into consideration. > > Now, am I likely to do that by picking any black doctor out of a hat, or rather, from a website? No. But it might be where I _start_ in a search for information. > > It’s not racism, it’s _self-preservation_. why do you get the monopoly on feeling good about being seen unclothed and exposing intimate details of your life? look, if I’m white and i specifically want to go see a white doctor because that’s what makes me feel better about approaching a medical practitioner… that’s not racist. if you’re white and you specifically want to go see a white doctor because you think that black doctors are just affirmative-action coattail riders who are less proficient than white docs, you are possibly racist. feel free to substitute “white” with “black” and “affirmative-action coattail riders” with “undeserving beneficiaries of a systemic power structure in this country cultivated from decades of disparate treatment”, btw. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/97 "2010-02-17T22:20:52Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > So every licensed and boarded doctor (not that they’re all boarded anyway) has exactly the same capacity and aptitude at practicing medicine? > > standardized testing and government/professional licensing caters to a least common denominator - it’s not really evidence of anything except minimum competency. I’m surprised (and dismayed) at your last paragraph. As to the first question… Again, really, in many cases, what the person knew and mastered _before_ med school does not necessarily indicate their aptitude and capacity once they finish med school and residencies. Say what you want about standarizing testing in other areas, but I do know, from personal experience and seeing my friends struggle, that many of those medical (and veterinary medical) tests are NOT catered to the least common denominator. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/98 "2010-02-17T22:34:05Z")
> [@KarlGrenze](#): > > I’m surprised (and dismayed) at your last paragraph. > > As to the first question… Again, really, in many cases, what the person knew and mastered _before_ med school does not necessarily indicate their aptitude and capacity once they finish med school and residencies. > > Say what you want about standarizing testing in other areas, but I do know, from personal experience and seeing my friends struggle, that many of those medical (and veterinary medical) tests are NOT catered to the least common denominator. I think we may be misunderstanding each other. I’m not talking about MCATS. I’m not talking about optional board certifications either. I am talking about things like USMLE. A cursory glance at: [http://www.usmle.org/Scores\_Transcripts/performance/2007.html](http://www.usmle.org/Scores_Transcripts/performance/2007.html) indicates that passage rates are well over 90% for these things. I’m not suggesting that they are formatted to cater to an affirmative-action depressed test-taking pool, but rather that the these tests aim for minimal, baseline competency in order to justify entry barriers to the profession, justify the protectionism afforded the field, and that only a minimal amount of weeding is going on here. Sure, you can argue that those who are in a position to take these tests have already been through many rounds of selection. However, this would ignore that a claim of affirmative action preference (or whatever you want to call it) effectively shortcircuiting those weeding mechanisms. Which is probably how AA gets into this thread. My point is that, much like the insecure people in my field (law) who yap on and on about how people who went to the shittiest law school and passed the bar are as much a lawyer as the guy who was on the Harvard Law Review, bandying about “well they passed some licensure tests” as evidence of your point belies the fact that there is still much stratification in the quality of medical practitioner. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGrenze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/dbc845/32.png) [@KarlGrenze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGrenze)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/99 "2010-02-17T22:49:35Z")
No, dude, I’m not talking about the MCATS, I’m talking about the same tests you’re talking… And my edit window expired, so let me see if I can explain… First of all, the USMLE is the general licensing test, NOT the board tests that the doctors have to take at the end of their residencies to become fully specialized. None of those tests are a cake in the walk. The students who take those tests are studying really hard before taking them. In the general USMLE tests, yes, the passing rate is higher, but again, that does not mean it is simply easy. You guys seem to think that it is easy, a piece of cake, and really “not good enough” for medicine. But in reality, seriously, the minimum amount of knowledge and skills required for a doctor is a lot… A whole freaking lot. Just because it is the minimum it is not “easy”, nor is it “bad”. It is perfectly fine. A very selective test would be harmful to the profession, and really not of much help to the patients. The specialty specific tests, the ones taken at the end of residencies, are much more specialized, and much more harder, with lower passing rates. Again, even if the majority pass, this does not mean that the exam is “easy”, nor that the minimum is not “good enough”. It IS plenty of good enough, it IS exactly what is expected and required for that profession, and that specialty. You guys seem to think that “the minimum” is bad. It is not, each college ensures that the minimum their diplomates should know is still hard, difficult, and vast knowledge. What I found absurd is that somehow, you guys immediately think that a student who had straight A’s in med school will certainly be super doctor compared to another one who struggled. Medicine (and veterinary medicine) is not just intellect. It requires more than that. And not only that, but too much intellect is not necessary in medicine. Putting medicine in an intelectual pedestal harms everyone. Sure, it should be demanding, but expecting all doctors to have genius level IQs is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936/100 "2010-02-17T22:51:37Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > White doctors practice like _this_… and black doctors practice like _this_! Yeah, y’all know I’m right! That was funny 🙂 PS. Take a break from those old Futurama episodes 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-about-getting-a-black-or-foreign-doctor-make-sure-to-use-www-whitedoctor-org/528936.md?page=6)