# "Concerned Citizens of the United States" Looking Out for Our Interests! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 14, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679 "2010-07-14T17:34:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/141 "2010-07-21T22:26:16Z")
> [@dmatsch](#): > > Every hear of an anchor baby? I’m familiar with quite a few racial slurs for Mexicans, you inbred fuck. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/142 "2010-07-21T22:45:44Z")
> [@dmatsch](#): > > What the hell does this mean? When I got there? I was born here. > > What gives me the right to impose border controls after “I got here”? Uh, maybe because the illegals are starting to cause a serious concern to the economy of this nation. > > Do I think the land beneath my feet is my God given entitlement? Fuck yes. I’m a veteran. You bet your ass it’s my EARNED entitlement. Why do you think being a veteran lends your opinion weight or matters in any way at all? ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/143 "2010-07-22T00:50:18Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Why do you think being a veteran lends your opinion weight or matters in any way at all? Racism from a hired killer really does have more of an edge to it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/144 "2010-07-22T14:12:51Z")
> [@dmatsch](#): > > When the workers get hurt on the job, and go to the hospital, who do you think pays for that? Their employers. Employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers are obliged to provide workers’ compensation benefits; the burden is on the employer to prove that the undocumented worker deceived them. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Carol\_the\_Impaler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_the_Impaler)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/145 "2010-07-22T14:31:52Z")
> [@dmatsch](#): > > 2a. (snip) It doesn’t take a rocket genius to figure out that non documented (read: non-tax-paying) … This again? Undocumented workers pay state, local, and federal taxes via witholdings from their check. Just like you. They pay sales tax on goods and services, just like you. They pay property tax via their rents just like you. If they own a home they pay property tax just like you. They pay wheel tax if they drive a car just like you. They pay cigarette taxes if they smoke just like you. Most people on this board who participate in these threads already know this. You’re not telling anyone here anything shocking that we’ve never considered before. You’re behind. Way behind. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/146 "2010-07-22T14:54:07Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Why the hell are you even on this board, if you have interest in learning? God dammit. That should read, “if you have **no** interest in learning.” ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/147 "2010-07-22T15:31:56Z")
> [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](#): > > Was this sarcasm? > > I mean, I’m pretty confident it had to be a state employee – someone with access to that information – who did the deed, but I don’t see evidence in that article that it was these two people. > > If I had to guess based on my time working for the state I’d suppose that a cursory glance at the access histories of these two individuals’ state database profiles would indicate that they’d accessed the files. > > I’m not defending these people by any stretch of the imagination, but I’m just checking: was that your deadpan face or no? No, not sarcasm. I think there’s a low threshold for claiming that the source of the data was illegal access, but there had to be SOMETHING, not just speculation. I don’t know if it was these particular people, or what their degree of criminal culpability might be, but this news is enough that I agree it’s reasonable to say that the list itself was obtained illegally. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/148 "2010-07-22T15:48:04Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I didn’t hear anyone saying that when Saddam was kicking the shit out of Kuwait. Sure you did: Saddam himself. And had his conquest been permitted to continue to completion, then he’d have a claim of sovereignty over the area. > [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I was under the impression that the point of the founding of the United Nations was to stop recognizing right of conquest as legitimate. Going forward, at any rate. > > In the meantime, the evolution of our consciousness kinda-sorta compels us to acknowledge that the past legitimacy of the practice is suspect (by today’s standards), and that what we have come to think of as the perquisites of sovereignty should at least be subjected to some scrutiny before we use them as exclusionary cudgels against human beings who presumably have the same reasons for wanting to be here as did our own immigrant ancestors. Sure, let me know how that works, unraveling conquest after conquest. Do the Celts get to stay in Britain or do they have to be resettled in Central Europe? Even if we assume that the United Nations’ founding drew a bright line in the sand insofar as freezing national boundary changes by conquest, the specific reference I was answering - US sovereignty over mainland middle North America - comfortably pre-dates it. So, no, I absolutely reject the idea that there can be any question of the sovereignty of the present United States government over the land in question here, much less the idea that such question can be used in any way to vitiate the strength or legitimacy of our immigration laws, regardless of how much of a “cudgel” they are for other human beings. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/149 "2010-07-22T15:48:29Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Racism from a hired killer really does have more of an edge to it. Hired killer? Nice jerkish comment, that. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/150 "2010-07-22T16:25:10Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I was under the impression that the point of the founding of the United Nations was to stop recognizing right of conquest as legitimate. Going forward, at any rate. > > In the meantime, the evolution of our consciousness kinda-sorta compels us to acknowledge that the past legitimacy of the practice is suspect (by today’s standards), and that what we have come to think of as the perquisites of sovereignty should at least be subjected to some scrutiny before we use them as exclusionary cudgels against human beings who presumably have the same reasons for wanting to be here as did our own immigrant ancestors. > [@Bricker](#): > > Sure, let me know how that works, unraveling conquest after conquest. Do the Celts get to stay in Britain or do they have to be resettled in Central Europe? Evidently, I wasn’t careful enough to make it clear that “Going forward, at any rate” was intended to mean that I expect and endorse no such unraveling. My apologies. It was so intended. > [@Bricker](#): > > Even if we assume that the United Nations’ founding drew a bright line in the sand insofar as freezing national boundary changes by conquest, the specific reference I was answering - US sovereignty over mainland middle North America - comfortably pre-dates it. > > So, no, I absolutely reject the idea that there can be any question of the sovereignty of the present United States government over the land in question here, much less the idea that such question can be used in any way to vitiate the strength or legitimacy of our immigration laws, regardless of how much of a “cudgel” they are for other human beings. I hope I didn’t explicitly deny the legitimacy of those laws, as they presently appear on the books. I do have the sense that such laws have historically been enforced, and in some cases, have been written in such a way as to put members of some ethnic groups at a disproportionate and inequitable disadvantage. To the extent that my sense is an accurate reflection of reality, I would like to see some reform of those laws, and if that reform results in a temporary disproportionate _advantage_ to those ethnic groups, I think I could be okay with that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/151 "2010-07-22T16:58:25Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > Racism from a hired killer really does have more of an edge to it. Hired killer? To be fair, for all I know he was a medic who saved lives or a recruiter or a machinist in a base in Japan. But it doesn’t matter. A couple of years of working for the US government doesn’t lend one’s opinion weight. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/152 "2010-07-22T17:06:39Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > I’d like to send the names of the people behind this to media outlets on a list of “suspected” child molesters. Can’t be pulled off. Everyone knows that Catholic priests don’t get married, especially not to multiple women. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/153 "2010-07-22T17:11:37Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > I do have the sense that such laws have historically been enforced, and in some cases, have been written in such a way as to put members of some ethnic groups at a disproportionate and inequitable disadvantage. Yes. No to be snarky, but I think this is fair territory to observe, “no shit.” Yes, our immigration laws, almost by definition, put members of some ethnic groups at a disadvantage. That’s essentially a necessary consequence of immigration laws. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/154 "2010-07-22T17:32:01Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. No to be snarky, but I think this is fair territory to observe, “no shit.” Yes, our immigration laws, almost by definition, put members of some ethnic groups at a disadvantage. That’s essentially a necessary consequence of immigration laws. That’s a really good point and something I hadn’t thought about before. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/155 "2010-07-22T20:18:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. No to be snarky, but I think this is fair territory to observe, “no shit.” Yes, our immigration laws, almost by definition, put members of some ethnic groups at a disadvantage. That’s essentially a necessary consequence of immigration laws. In what sense is it a necessary consequence? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/156 "2010-07-22T20:56:10Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In what sense is it a necessary consequence? :dubious: Because them Mexicans ain’t got no fancy dee-grees. Or something. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/157 "2010-07-22T23:47:30Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Because them Mexicans ain’t got no fancy dee-grees. Or something. Messicans. Git yer pronounciations rite. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@Captain\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/158 "2010-07-23T11:15:27Z")
Thge United States has never had “open immigration”. Most of the people who came in the 19th and 20th Century were Europeans. There were even laws on the books stopping Chinese from coming to the USA for a period of time. It is not easy for a spouse of a foreigner living abroad to come live in the USA. There are laws, rules, paperwork, waiting and fees. I don’t like this, but that is the way it is. When you go to a country, any country, there are laws pertaining immigration. You can’t just move to another country, work and live there undocumented. That is not our system, or the system of any nation on the Planet. In many nations, it is easy for a foreigner to come and live, either the foreigner has special skills, or wishes amnesty from a hostile foreign government. Let’s just open the borders of the nation and just allow whomever to come from anywhere. Do away with citizenship requirements, job documentation, social security, and everything. Everyone in low level or menial work gets paid under the table so to speak, with no pesky minumum wage laws. America right now is suffering from 10% unemployment. There is no job that an American “will not do”. An American can make beds in hotels, be maids, pick fruit, construction, anything. There are many CITIZENS who are in the trades who want to work! I think some here see Utah as a mostly white state who is trying to put the screws on the poor, mistreated brown Mexicans, when in fact, it is citizens who are tired of being undercut for jobs, having to deal with the uptick in crime, drunk drivers, excessive people in a house, their state being overburdened paying benefits and welfare to these ILLEGAL invaders, taxes that are being paid by LEGAL citizens. Yeah ARIZONA. Yeah UTAH. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/159 "2010-07-23T11:42:16Z")
Do what those goddamned Mexicans do, or anyone else who wants to improve their standard of living… fuck off somewhere else if it’s bothering you that much. I’ve heard the further north you get, the less Mexicans there are. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2010, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679/160 "2010-07-23T13:03:08Z")
> [@Captain\_Midnight](#): > > Thge United States has never had "open America right now is suffering from 10% unemployment. There is no job that an American “will not do”. An American can make beds in hotels, be maids, pick fruit, construction, anything. There are many CITIZENS who are in the trades who want to work! > **[TAKEOURJOBS.ORG](http://www.takeourjobs.org/)** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/concerned-citizens-of-the-united-states-looking-out-for-our-interests/546679.md?page=9)