# "Conclave" currently free for Amazon prime members to stream \[Open spoilers starting in post 5-ish\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies\ **Created:** [April 28, 2025, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580 "2025-04-28T00:01:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/21 "2025-04-28T20:28:46Z")
That scene looks like Christo meets Birnam Wood. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/22 "2025-04-28T20:30:03Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Yes, but would he be obviously male _naked_? It seems clear to me that’s what he meant, otherwise why else would it even come up? If he didn’t have male genitalia he wouldn’t have been raised a boy or thought or himself as a man. He was surprised to find that internally he was not male. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/23 "2025-04-28T20:30:59Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > The film was _very_ clear that just looking at Benitez he would be considered male. From the script: > > > But the truth is, there simply was no > > reason to think I was different > > from the other young men. Then, in > > my late thirties, I had an > > operation to remove my appendix. > > And that was when the doctors > > discovered that I had a uterus and > > ovaries. I thought he said he was assigned male at birth. This is not a Pope Joan situation. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/24 "2025-04-28T21:00:34Z")
True. I think the story would have been a lot more interesting if he had been physically female at birth but transgender and decided to live as a boy in his teenage years. He went to seminary where no one knew because conditions were “modest,” and then eventually worked his way up to to becoming elected Pope. Now that would have really thrown the church into a tailspin. That would have been a different book altogether. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/25 "2025-04-28T21:37:25Z")
In case anyone is thinking that if he were 100% physically a female, then his ordination would not have been valid, a person does not have to be a priest in order to be elected Pope. He just has to be male. > A Bishop, a Cardinal, a Priest, a Deacon and even a Catholic layman can become Pope. > **[Pontificium Consilium pro Familia - How does someone become Pope?](http://www.familiam.org/pls/pcpf/v3_s2ew_consultazione.mostra_pagina%3Fid_pagina=11162.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2025, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/26 "2025-04-28T21:55:08Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > > [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > > > The film was _very_ clear that just looking at Benitez he would be considered male. From the script: > > > > > But the truth is, there simply was no > > > reason to think I was different > > > from the other young men. Then, in > > > my late thirties, I had an > > > operation to remove my appendix. > > > And that was when the doctors > > > discovered that I had a uterus and > > > ovaries. > > I thought he said he was assigned male at birth. This is not a Pope Joan situation. Yes, that’s what I’m saying. ---
**Author:** ![Maserschmidt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/maserschmidt/32/18829_2.png) [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/27 "2025-04-29T20:28:19Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I remember a cool shot from the movie Conclave of all of the Cardinals entering, each carrying identical umbrellas. Well, except for one Cardinal: Ralph Fiennes’ character. He’s really all alone at that moment. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2025, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/28 "2025-04-29T20:47:28Z")
Yes, he must have had a penis. And probably a scrotum. And having a very modest childhood, he didn’t realize his balls were different. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2025, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/29 "2025-04-30T09:42:37Z")
Watched it again last night. My theory that the whole thing was carefully engineered by the late Pope holds up. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/30 "2025-05-06T08:45:02Z")
Yes, I have belatedly been realising that. Not 100%. The guy likely didn’t arrange for the explosion. But right at the beginning, Bellini (Tucci) says, while asking about keeping the chessboard they used to play on, that the late Pope was always 5 or 6 moves ahead. And then: Adeyemi (whose views on homosexuality would be a regression from the late Pope’s position) sees his early lead blow up in a scandal. Tremblay becomes the new front runner until a) word of his final meeting with the Pope, the demand for his resignation, and news of a damning report leak out and b) investigation discovers that Tremblay was the one who engineered the exposure of Adeyemi’s scandal by ordering the mother of his child to Rome. _Which he says he did on the Pope’s orders._ Even without the simony report, this apparent naked ambition was enough to damn him, and who would believe him when he blames the dead Pope? Assume Tremblay is telling the truth about this at least - that’s two strong contenders taken out by posthumous maneouvering. Benitez, of course, was made Cardinal in secret. Ostensibly to protect him in Kabul, it also has the effect of allowing him to come into the conclave without anyone having preconceptions of him. However… and I’m realising this as I’m typing… it would have been vanishingly unlikely that (he?/they?) could have made the impression they did. A nice thing to hope for, but a long shot. And what seems to be the more likely outcome for most the of the film? The ascent of Lawrence. Reluctant, kept in Rome by the Pope despite his request to leave, but a good manager (and sometimes orgs need that more than a visionary), a liberal in the mould of the dead Pope, and a man with a hard working conscience. Lawrence doesn’t want it. He tells people that. He even tells Benitez, directly, that he doesn’t want their vote. To which Benitez replies; “Nevertheless, you have it”. Where did this wanderer in the wilderness, this Holy Innocent, get such a clear idea Lawrence, the dead Pope’s right hand man, had the qualities needed to be the next Pope? Fun though it is to think that the dead Pope was scheming to get Benitez elected, that must have been a fall back, or maybe Benitez is meant to be the next Pope but one, Lawrence’s successor. That would be playing many moves ahead. But surely Lawrence was plan A. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/31 "2025-05-06T12:50:42Z")
Your post makes a lot of sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/32 "2025-05-06T13:46:18Z")
Gotta have some _deus ex machina_ in the mix. I can see Benitez being there to weaken Tedesco’s influence on the conclave, resulting in Lawrence being the “compromise” candidate. But God had other ideas, apparently. In the book Lawrence (“Lomeli” in the book) becomes the leading candidate in a vote between the explosion and the duelling Tedesco-Benitez speeches, but it just would have dragged the film out further for the same result. (Also in the book: Benitez is Filipino rather than Mexican and still based in Baghdad.) ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/33 "2025-05-06T16:17:58Z")
I’m glad someone who has read the book is checking in. (I haven’t. Yet.) At what point in his life did Benitez find out he had a uterus? My neighbor (who has read the book) said it was during the conclave itself after the bomb. Benitez was injured and had to have surgery. Is that what happened? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/34 "2025-05-06T16:21:45Z")
Confession [sic]: I didn’t read the book, I read the Wiki page. Although I have been told various things by others who _did_ read the book. Wiki says: > [@](#): > > It was only after he was injured in a bombing in Iraq that he was examined by a doctor for the first time in his life and informed of his condition. Benítez had tried to resign from his office to undergo gender reassignment surgery, but the late pope refused his resignation and created him cardinal _in pectore_ with full knowledge of his condition. Benítez ultimately declined surgery and resumed his duties. So yes, a bombing, but not the one at the conclave. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/35 "2025-05-06T16:25:11Z")
Okay, thanks. _Ego te absolvo._ 🙏🏽 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2025, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580/36 "2025-05-06T21:20:30Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > Where did this wanderer in the wilderness, this Holy Innocent, get such a clear idea Lawrence, the dead Pope’s right hand man, had the qualities needed to be the next Pope? Secret Cardinal or not, Benitez was still a high-ranking member of the church. While his posts probably meant he needed to keep his head down, I’m sure he had a good handle on the workings of the Vatican, just as a lowly branch office manager has their own connections with headquarters outside of the organizational chart. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conclave-currently-free-for-amazon-prime-members-to-stream-open-spoilers-starting-in-post-5-ish/1017580.md?page=1)