# "Condescension" as understood by Jane Austen **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [August 15, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326 "2013-08-15T17:14:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/21 "2013-08-17T01:38:26Z")
I prefer the Keira Knightley version to the Jennifer Ehle one, but then, I’ve long been a bit smitten with Knightley. That version has better cinematography IMHO and an Oscar-nominated soundtrack, too. > [@Miss\_Woodhouse](#): > > …For example, the Bennett family is portrayed as poor… Nitpick: only one “t” in the Bennet family name. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/22 "2013-08-17T19:37:32Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > … Saying she _would_ condescend to speak to his friends wouldn’t have been a much more favorable remark, as it would be taken to mean she considered herself so far above them that just speaking to them required lowering herself, but in Jane Austen’s time someone like Lady Catherine really did have special status. … In our time, too, really. Our Jane was quite the subversive when it came to class privilege. To judge people on their personal qualities rather than on the accident of their birth was–then as now–rather revolutionary. That enough people were able to enjoy this aspect of Austen’s writing to make her books popular, is one of the more interesting of the many interesting things about the phenomenon of her success. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/23 "2013-08-18T13:04:56Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Nitpick: only one “t” in the Bennet family name. Too poor for a second ‘t’. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/24 "2013-08-18T18:52:33Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Too poor for a second ‘t’. Heh. Abraham Lincoln said of his wealthy and influential in-laws, “God is content with one ‘d,’ but of course the Todds must have two.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2013, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/25 "2013-08-18T18:56:34Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Too poor for a second ‘t’. And if things don’t improve, they’re going to have to sell off an ‘n’. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/26 "2013-08-19T01:11:15Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I prefer the Keira Knightley version to the Jennifer Ehle one, but then, I’ve long been a bit smitten with Knightley. That version has better cinematography IMHO and an Oscar-nominated soundtrack, too… That’s all well and good, but the other version had both Colin Firth and Colin Firth soaking wet… ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/27 "2013-08-19T05:01:20Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > The best thing to do is to watch the Jennifer Ehle/Colin Firth version. It’s very faithful and long enough to really capture the novel. Watched Episode 1 per your advice and did love it. Remaining episodes on hold while I watch Breaking Bad 5/10. 😉 > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > … but then, I’ve long been a bit smitten with Knightley. Me too, and this worried me about watching Jennifer Ehle, whom I’d never heard of. :rolleyes: But … I’m pleased to announce that Ms. Ehle has been promoted to my personal list of the World’s Most Spectacularly Beautiful Women! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2013, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/28 "2013-08-19T15:49:28Z")
Of course, Jane was supposed to be the true beauty, while Lizzie was a close second. **septimus** - I’m glad you enjoyed it! I think interspersing an hour of P&P with an hour of BB could really mess a person up. StG ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/29 "2015-07-14T03:44:43Z")
Bumped. I just read Edmund S. Morgan’s _The Genius of George Washington_, which includes an excerpt from a 1775 letter from Gen. Washington, advising a newly-appointed colonel in the Continental Army: “Be easy and condescending in your deportment to your officers, but not too familiar, lest you subject yourself to a want of that respect, which is necessary to support a proper command.” ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/30 "2015-07-14T19:56:27Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Bumped. > > I just read Edmund S. Morgan’s _The Genius of George Washington_, which includes an excerpt from a 1775 letter from Gen. Washington, advising a newly-appointed colonel in the Continental Army: “Be easy and condescending in your deportment to your officers, but not too familiar, lest you subject yourself to a want of that respect, which is necessary to support a proper command.” Interesting find. And the use of “condescending” in the sense of “admirable kindness to one’s inferiors” seems a bit more acceptable, to modern ears, in a military context than in a social one. Hierarchy as an organizing principle for the Army makes perfect sense–whereas hierarchy as an organizing principle for a society depends on the accident of birth. We moderns tend to see that as being inherently lacking in fairness. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2015, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/31 "2015-07-14T20:54:42Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > … toadying lickspittle… Great screen name. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/32 "2015-07-15T03:18:02Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Bumped. > > I just read Edmund S. Morgan’s _The Genius of George Washington_, which includes an excerpt from a 1775 letter from Gen. Washington, advising a newly-appointed colonel in the Continental Army: “Be easy and condescending in your deportment to your officers, but not too familiar, lest you subject yourself to a want of that respect, which is necessary to support a proper command.” I’ve been watching _Band of Brothers_ lately and there’s a character, Lt Buck Compton, and it’s implied that he has a problem because he’s too familiar with the enlisted men in his command. While he’s popular, this familiarity makes it difficult for him to lead them in combat. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/33 "2015-07-15T03:33:58Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Too poor for a second ‘t’. Perhaps when Lady Catherine said “I require tea!” they misunderstood? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/34 "2015-07-15T04:56:16Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > …toadying lickspittle… > [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Great screen name. My favorite lines from the remake of _101 Dalmatians_: Cruella De Vil: “What kind of sycophant are you?” Frederick: “Uh, what kind of sycophant would you like me to be?” > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve been watching _Band of Brothers_ lately and there’s a character, Lt Buck Compton, and it’s implied that he has a problem because he’s too familiar with the enlisted men in his command. While he’s popular, this familiarity makes it difficult for him to lead them in combat. Yes. It’s called fraternization: [Fraternization - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternization#Within_militaries) ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/35 "2015-07-15T07:03:44Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Not to mention Doctor Watson ejaculating all over the place. > [@Yllaria](#): > > Also know as: [What did Watson do twice as often as Holmes?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xst0a-_v9Dg) Which is also hilarious. Occasionally I get a bit wistful for earlier. less sex-obsessed times, when one’s vocabulary could be a bit more expansive: when “ejaculate” could be used as a synonym for “exclaim”, and an “erection” could mean a tall, impressive building, without people automatically sniggering / nudging / winking / collapsing with mirth. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2015, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/36 "2015-07-15T11:16:43Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > The best thing to do is to watch the Jennifer Ehle/Colin Firth version. It’s very faithful and long enough to really capture the novel. And it captures exactly how Mrs. Bennett became the most annoying woman in literature. 🙂 Also, Colin Firth goes swimming in his gentlemanly white linen shirt. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/37 "2015-07-16T04:40:49Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > …Also, Colin Firth goes swimming in his gentlemanly white linen shirt. 😃 OK, that’s _two_ mentions of that scene in this thread… ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/38 "2015-07-16T18:49:05Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > Also, Colin Firth goes swimming in his gentlemanly white linen shirt. 😃 which miraculously dries out within a second of his emerging from the water… ---
**Author:** ![Inna\_Minnit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Inna\_Minnit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inna_Minnit)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/39 "2015-07-16T19:02:00Z")
> [@kittenblue](#): > > That’s all well and good, but the other version had both Colin Firth and Colin Firth soaking wet… Colin Firth in his absolute prime, soaking wet… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2015, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/40 "2015-07-17T01:36:31Z")
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