# "Condescension" as understood by Jane Austen **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [August 15, 2013, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326 "2013-08-15T17:14:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/41 "2016-01-18T20:34:05Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Bumped. > > I just read Edmund S. Morgan’s _The Genius of George Washington_, which includes an excerpt from a 1775 letter from Gen. Washington, advising a newly-appointed colonel in the Continental Army: “Be easy and condescending in your deportment to your officers, but not too familiar, lest you subject yourself to a want of that respect, which is necessary to support a proper command.” Today I finished David Hackett Fischer’s excellent _Washington’s Crossing_, which includes this passage: “Washington had been taught to treat people of every rank with civility and ‘condescension,’ a word that has changed its meaning in the modern era. In Washington’s world, to condescend was to treat inferiors with decency and respect while maintaining a system of inequality.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/42 "2016-08-31T04:19:59Z")
Bumped again. In a November 25, 1775 letter, John Adams wrote of the social and etiquette differences between New Englanders and Southerners, observing, “Without… the most considerate forbearance with one another and prudent condescension on both sides, they will certainly be fatal.” Found in both _The Works of John Adams_ and Catherine Drinker Bowen’s _Miracle at Philadelphia_. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/43 "2016-08-31T08:38:08Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > Occasionally I get a bit wistful for earlier. less sex-obsessed times, when one’s vocabulary could be a bit more expansive: when “ejaculate” could be used as a synonym for “exclaim”, and an “erection” could mean a tall, impressive building, without people automatically sniggering / nudging / winking / collapsing with mirth. There were no such times. From Boswell’s Life of Johnson: > [@](#): > > ``` > REYNOLDS. 'A printer's devil, Sir! Why, I thought a printer's devil was a creature with a black face and in rags.' > JOHNSON. `Yes, Sir. But I suppose he had her face washed, and put clean clothes on her. (Then looking very serious, and very earnest.) And she did not disgrace him; the woman had a bottom of good sense.' > > ``` > > The word bottom, thus introduced, was so ludicrous when contrasted with his gravity that most of us could not forbear tittering and laughing; though I recollect that the Bishop of Killaloe kept his countenance with perfect steadiness, while Miss Hannah More slyly hid her face behind a lady’s back who sat on the same settee with her. His pride could not bear that any expression of his should excite ridicule when he did not intend it; he therefore resolved to assume and exercise despotic power, glanced sternly around, and called out in a strong tone, `Where's the merriment?' Then collecting himself, and looking awful, to make us feel how he could impose restraint, and as it were searching his mind for a still more ludicrous word, he slowly pronounced, `I say the woman was fundamentally sensible’; as if he had said, hear this now, and laugh if you dare. We all sat composed as at a funeral. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/44 "2016-12-21T04:56:45Z")
Bumped. After mistakenly printing a report in Sept. 1865 that the late President’s eldest son was in Paris, the _Chicago Tribune_ ran a correction: “Capt. Robert Lincoln was at his usual place in this city last evening, in the enjoyment of good health, and was not aware of his being in Paris… all the papers commend the condescension of Capt. Lincoln in studying law and preparing to work for a living.” ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/45 "2016-12-21T05:20:33Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > It’s the literal meaning that gave rise to the current sarcastic meaning. Originally it referred to someone of high status being willing to lower themselves to speak to someone lower than themselves, and could be considered a mark of kindness. Not just to speak, but to speak to them as an equal. Those grownups who speak to a child in high-pitched voices are condescending badly; those who pick their words to speak in terms the child will be more likely to understand are condescending correctly. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/46 "2022-08-08T17:04:28Z")
Bumped. Excerpted from the Scripture reading in a recent memorial service that I attended: _14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not._ _15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep._ _16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits._ Romans 12:14-16 (KJV). ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/47 "2022-08-08T17:09:19Z")
Interesting! In more modern-day translations: New International Version: > [@](#): > > 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. > 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. > 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. English Standard Version: > [@](#): > > 14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. > 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. > 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. ---
**Author:** ![Cardigan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardigan/32/187_2.png) [@Cardigan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardigan)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/48 "2022-08-08T17:15:06Z")
The way Jane Austen uses the term is a direct reference to the concept of _noblesse oblige_. In essence - how _generous_ of Lady Catherine to bother to speak to commoners. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/49 "2022-08-08T17:17:10Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > The OED lists an obsolete meaning for condescension as showing gracious or submissive deference to another and the last quote entry is from 1871. Interesting as it’s close to being the opposite. This reminds me of another word I need to ask about, but that’s best left for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/50 "2022-08-08T17:32:32Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > You can certainly find the word “gay” used in what we would see as incongruous ways in old books and magazines. In a long-ago SD column, Cecil mention that the word “gay” had had a secondary meaning alluding to sexual activity, though not necessarily homosexual, for generations before it acquired its current usage. Interestingly enough, a century or more ago, at least in NYC, to “get gay” with someone meant to make trouble with them or challenge them. I have this only from a P.G. Wodehouse story written in 1914, but Wodehouse was usually reasonably accurate in such matters. By that time, he had already lived in New York for a year, some years previously, and that year he moved there again and stayed there all through the first World War.\* In the novel, _Psmith, Journalist_, the character who says this is a major gang leader modeled on the real-life [Monk Eastman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monk_Eastman). \*Due to poor eyesight he was rejected for military service. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/51 "2022-08-08T18:45:20Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > You can certainly find the word “gay” used in what we would see as incongruous ways in old books and magazines. I was once watching a movie made in the ‘30s, in which a handsome young couple (Lew Ayres and Jeanette MacDonald, maybe) are dressed to the nines and paintin’ the town red. When they’re done cuttin’ a rug, they go out on the terrace for a breath of air and the woman says (in a 1930s falsetto): _“Ha, ha, ha! Oh, Eddie! You’re such a **gay** boy! Ha, ha, ha, ha!”_ I wonder how much of the audience (they were not native English speakers) grasped the ambiguity of that sentence. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2022, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/52 "2022-08-08T20:04:31Z")
A “gay girl” was a common phrase in late Victorian and Edwardian times for anything between “a good-time girl” and a streetwalker. It didn’t become synonymous with homosexuality till the 60s or 70s. ---
**Author:** ![MrAtoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@MrAtoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrAtoz)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2022, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/53 "2022-08-09T01:03:48Z")
In the Boris Karloff movie _The Mummy_, from 1932, you can hear two usages that would mean something rather different to us than they meant to contemporary audiences: There is speculation that the reason the mummy was cursed is that “he got too gay with the vestal virgins.” Later, the heroine says, “Don’t you think I’ve had enough excitement for one day, without a strange man making love to me?” (“Making love” here meaning “wooing” or “making a pass”). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/54 "2022-09-26T17:34:31Z")
I recently visited Confederate Gen. Thomas “Stonewall” Jackson’s HQ in Winchester, Va. Jackson was very religious and was quoted in one of the exhibits as having said, about a decade before the Civil War, “My Heavenly Father has condescended to use me as an instrument.” ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2022, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/55 "2022-09-26T22:06:16Z")
Puts a whole new slant on “‘I’ll take the prisoner downstairs,’ said Tom condescendingly,'” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2023, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/56 "2023-03-23T17:38:43Z")
An expatriate Swiss artist painted a portrait of George Washington in Philadelphia in 1779, writing in his journal, “The general… came with [John Jay] to my house this morning & condescended with great good nature to Sit about ¾ of an hour for the above likeness.” From here: [https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/2013/12/with-great-good-nature-an-unfamiliar-portrait-of-george-washington.html](https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/2013/12/with-great-good-nature-an-unfamiliar-portrait-of-george-washington.html) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2025, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/57 "2025-08-18T02:06:42Z")
Bumped. I recently visited Washington’s home, Mount Vernon, and the family plot. I noticed a small obelisk honoring his nephew Bushrod, who had a distinguished political and legal career, including service on the U.S. Supreme Court. The inscription on the obelisk [includes the word “condescending” in praising him.](https://academic.oup.com/book/41534/chapter-abstract/352979367?redirectedFrom=fulltext) You can see the obelisk to the right, here: [Bushrod Washington - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushrod_Washington#/media/File:Tomb_of_George_Washington_-_wide_-_Mount_Vernon.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/58 "2025-08-20T11:42:42Z")
I’d see it as ‘he/she is high up in society, he would be justified in just ignoring us, but he descends to take some notice of us and interact with us, which he didn’t need to do.’ ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2025, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/59 "2025-08-20T13:57:00Z")
That’s certainly how I understand it would have been meant in Austen’s time, but you can see how easily that would have morphed into something much more pejorative, since the “condescending” might well have been delivered with more than a whiff of “de haut en bas” - “one does what one can for the little people”. (Cf Lady Catherine de. Bourgh or Mrs Elton). Same sort of mechanism as for “patronising”, which is no doubt what makes them more or less synonymous . ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2025, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326/60 "2025-08-25T19:03:00Z")
Just came across a reference to Benjamin Franklin’s 1746 essay _Reflections on Courtship and Marriage: In Two Letters to a Friend. Wherein a Practicable Plan is Laid Down for Obtaining and Securing Conjugal Felicity._ Franklin wrote: “We should… cultivate Dispositions of reciprocal _Condescension_, and such a Uniformity in our Tempers, that the Pleasures of One, may be the Pleasures of Both… The little Oversights and Sallies of Frailty, to which human Nature is ever liable, and from which the most perfect Characters are not exempt, should be passed over and die un-noticed. We should be ready to plead in Favour of each other in such Cases, and throw a Veil of Kindness and good humoured _Condescension_ over them…” (emphasis added). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condescension-as-understood-by-jane-austen/666326.md?page=4)