# Condi Rice, a moment of your time, please? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 19, 2006, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191 "2006-07-19T16:44:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2006, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191/61 "2006-07-20T07:25:45Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] Okay. I’ll do some active searching and see if I can do better. 😉 Actually, it was more of an assertion that since the UN decided to help make Israel a nation, they should take responsibility for helping to protect it, but I see where you’re coming from. OTOH, if any nation responds to violence with violence, they should be resonsible enough to make sure they’re targeting the correct people. And what Condi is doing is still reprehensible. [/QUOTE] Before the 1967 war there were UN peacekeepers in the Sinai. They got yanked out - I seem to recall at the instigation of the Soviet Union and the Arabs, and clearly to facilitate an attack on Israel. So, I agree that the UN should be involved, but even back then they could not be trusted. I’m a big fan of the UN in principle, (not in current practice) but one must be realistic. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191/62 "2006-07-21T02:11:47Z")
The UN had peacekeepers in Lebanon. That sure worked out well. On the other hand, the U.N. serves a useful purpose as an early warning system. You know something heavy’s coming down when the UN trooops bug out. They’re like a canary in a coal mine. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191/63 "2006-07-21T03:33:50Z")
That was sort of my point, **Sam**. No one takes the UN seriously because they don’t back up their resolutions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191/64 "2006-07-21T04:40:15Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] Actually, it was more of an assertion that since the UN decided to help make Israel a nation, they should take responsibility for helping to protect it, but I see where you’re coming from. OTOH, if any nation responds to violence with violence, they should be resonsible enough to make sure they’re targeting the correct people. [/quote] The US passed resoultion 1559 **2 years ago** calling for the disarmament of Hezbollah in Lebanon. What did that accomplish? > [@](#): > > And what Condi is doing is still reprehensible. The Senate and the House, in overwhelmingly bipartisan support of Israel, respectfully disagrees with you and agrees with Condi. [Congress Is Giving Israel Vote of Confidence](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/18/AR2006071801415_pf.html) > [@](#): > > With Israel intensifying its air and artillery attacks on Lebanon and warning of a protracted war, the Senate yesterday unanimously passed a bipartisan resolution endorsing Israel’s military campaign and condemning Hezbollah and its two backers, Iran and Syria. A few hours earlier, Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.) delivered his most strident defense of Israel since the conflict erupted a week ago. The House is expected to pass a similarly pro-Israel resolution today. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191/65 "2006-07-21T04:44:41Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] The US passed resoultion 1559 **2 years ago** calling for the disarmament of Hezbollah in Lebanon. What did that accomplish? [/QUOTE] That would be the UN, not the US. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191/66 "2006-07-21T04:46:27Z")
There’s a shocker. The Republican congress backing Bush’s foreign policy decisions? Say it ain’t so! So, Lebanon not doing anything about Hezbollah is reprehensible and their citizens deserve to be killed, but us giving Israel a wink and a nod to do whatever they will, no matter who is killed, is perfectly ok. Just so we’re clear. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191/67 "2006-07-21T05:10:53Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] There’s a shocker. The Republican congress backing Bush’s foreign policy decisions? Say it ain’t so! [/quote] Do you know what the word “unanimously” means? The House measure had 8 “no” votes, btw. > [@](#): > > So, Lebanon not doing anything about Hezbollah is reprehensible and their citizens deserve to be killed, but us giving Israel a wink and a nod to do whatever they will, no matter who is killed, is perfectly ok. Just so we’re clear. :rolleyes: If you think that’s a fair representation of what I’ve been saying, that we really have nothing further to discuss. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191/68 "2006-07-21T05:14:34Z")
Oh, don’t get your panties in a wad. How else would you characterize it? Advocating violence is advocating violence. The only thing that changes is who’s doing it. But, to paraphrase **Shodan** , it’s always different when the shoe’s on the other foot. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191/69 "2006-07-21T05:46:51Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] Oh, don’t get your panties in a wad. [/quote] My “panties” are fine. 🙂 > [@](#): > > How else would you characterize it? Uhm… accurately? Innocent people never “deserve” to be killed-- I didn’t say that, and I never would. Innocent people die in every miliary conflict. That’s a sad, regretable fact, but it doesn’t mean that any given military conflict is wrong. > [@](#): > > Advocating violence is advocating violence. The only thing that changes is who’s doing it. But, to paraphrase **Shodan** , it’s always different when the shoe’s on the other foot. Sometimes violence is necessary. This is one of those times. I know you don’t like the Republicans in DC, but do you honestly think that all those Democrats in Congress would have voted for that resolution if they had reason to believe that Israel was deliberately killing civilians, and that they weren’t simply defending themselves from Hezbollah attacks? What they are doing is not unlike what we did in Afghanistan. Israel would much prefer that the Lebanese gov’t or the UN deal with Hezbollah. But that didn’t happen and it wasn’t going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191/70 "2006-07-21T21:06:14Z")
[QUOTE=Maureen] That was sort of my point, **Sam**. No one takes the UN seriously because they don’t back up their resolutions. [/QUOTE] It depends on whether a major power cares. They backed it up fine in Korea, and in the Congo too. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condi-rice-a-moment-of-your-time-please/365191.md?page=3)