# Condoms and breakage **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 30, 2001, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948 "2001-08-30T15:53:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Qwertyasdfg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/ecc23a/32.png) [@Qwertyasdfg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qwertyasdfg)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/21 "2001-08-31T03:46:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sysop \* > \*\*QUESTION: Are there any certain types of condoms that protect against sexually transmitted diseases better than others? (Sometimes you have to spell it out for people.) > > ANSWER: Yes, of course. Any condom with nonoxynol-9 is better than a condom without…make sure you get the proper size (for proper fit), too. There are many different types of condoms on the market, I’d suggest that the young man seek the “professional” advice of his doctor. Also, if one insists on having any type of intercourse that should warrant the use of condoms (especially when the long-term outcome could be death), then what the heck, use TWO at the same time. \*\* Thats really bad advice. 2 condoms at once cause friction and are more likely to BOTH break. I repeat, DO NOT USE 2 CONDOMS at ONCE. Also, if you’d read above, nonoxynol-9 is not good for this type of thing. (Sometimes you just have to read whats already been said to people.) I know you didn’t ask my opinion, and you have no power to change this, but I have to agree with **tsunami** that its not advisable for a sexually inexperienced minor to have sex with an older, HIV positive person. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/22 "2001-08-31T04:57:13Z")
I understand there is a controversial topic here, but there is also a general question, which is “If you’re going to have sex, how can you have the safest possible sex?” This forum is for discussing only the general question. Anyone who wants to debate the controversial subject matter is invited to start a thread in the appropriate forum. I will not move this thread, because we are still getting good answers to the general question. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tsunamisurfer \* > \*\*I have no desire to debate the morality of a man (HIV-positive, no less) having sex with a child. The kid needs counseling, not a condom. The man is a creep, period. \*\* But debating the morality of the man is exactly what you have been doing. Please don’t do that again in this forum. > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by BingoBurringo_\*\* > Why don’t you try showing the little youngster some of those snuff-style website photos of people with full-blown AIDS? Tell him to take a good look at what he’s in for. > > As for the man, creep is too kind a word. Irresponsibility is most likely the reason he got the disease in the first place, so why should anybody be surprised that he’s not giving a damn about anyone but himself? No wonder this disease spreads like a plague. \*\*That sort of post is inappropriate to this forum. Please do not do it again. bibliophage moderator, GQ ---
**Author:** ![BingoBurringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/43a26b/32.png) [@BingoBurringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BingoBurringo)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/23 "2001-08-31T11:00:44Z")
Ok, I have a question for you. A man dying of a highly-communicable sexual disease wants to diddle a person who is legally a child. How can he do so LEGALLY without being being arrested for statuatory rape? And how can he do it without being arrested for child endangerment? And if he winds up infecting the child, how can he get out of an attempted murder charge? Is this different from an HIV-teeming crackhead who willingly spits at cops? I surely hope this fits the moderator’s agenda of what is a question. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/24 "2001-08-31T11:25:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BingoBurringo \* > \*\*Ok, I have a question for you. A man dying of a highly-communicable sexual disease wants to diddle a person who is legally a child. How can he do so LEGALLY without being being arrested for statuatory rape? And how can he do it without being arrested for child endangerment? And if he winds up infecting the child, how can he get out of an attempted murder charge? Is this different from an HIV-teeming crackhead who willingly spits at cops? > > I surely hope this fits the moderator’s agenda of what is a question. \*\* It is different in a multitude of ways. In quite a few states, the age of consent is 16 and as low as 14. Thus, it is NOT illegal in many states. It is also a consentual relationship. Being HIV positive or even having AIDS is not a death sentance anymore. Not to mention that he is honest about his situation. Moreover, it is none of your business, nor has it been made your business. Any further questions? ---
**Author:** ![lee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lee/32/7455_2.png) [@lee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lee)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/25 "2001-08-31T12:14:02Z")
While it is important not to use lube that will weaken the condom, like using oil based lubricants with latex condoms, proper lubricants can help decrease the chance of breakage and tearing of tissues. Also be sure to emphasize that semen is not the only way to transmit HIV. Anything involving possible bleeding, from popping pimples to trimming hangnails is a possible source of infection. I mention this because I do pop hubby’s pimples and sometimes he bleeds profusely. BTW, my husband is 3 years older than I am. I don’t care for the suggestion that if we met a few months earlier that he would be a pedophile. In Illinois at least, the difference in age must be 5 years or for there to be a problem under the law. ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/26 "2001-08-31T12:47:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BingoBurringo \* > \*\*Ok, I have a question for you. A man dying of a highly-communicable sexual disease wants to diddle a person who is legally a child. How can he do so LEGALLY without being being arrested for statuatory rape? And how can he do it without being arrested for child endangerment? And if he winds up infecting the child, how can he get out of an attempted murder charge? Is this different from an HIV-teeming crackhead who willingly spits at cops? > > I surely hope this fits the moderator’s agenda of what is a question. \*\* If you want to start a debate, start your own thread. This isn’t the place. Furthermore, you make it sound like he is forcing sex upon his boyfriend, has been dishonest about his HIV status at any point in time, and is forcing the boyfriend to be with him. None of these are the case- it takes two people to date and consent to have sex. Now once again for those in the back, can we kindly keep this thread about condoms? Sheesh. ---
**Author:** ![that\_darn\_cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/59ef9b/32.png) [@that\_darn\_cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/that_darn_cat)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/27 "2001-08-31T13:52:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sysop \* > QUESTION: Any condom with nonoxynol-9 is better than a condom without… Not to belabor the point, but this is a falsehood. As I said in my first post, nonoxynol-9 does NOT reduce the chance of HIV transmission, it can actually INCREASE it by up to 50%. Check out the link in my first post, you know the one right after the OP. I know **Qwertyasdfg** pointed this out, but it is important and bears repition. Also, I second the Durex condoms, I’ve found them to be very strong, though with some loss of sensation. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2001, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/28 "2001-08-31T14:00:24Z")
> [@](#): > > Andygirl: The best condoms I have found for their ability to decrease risk as well as not dimininshing pleasure as much are the polyurethane kind. They are sold under the names Avanti and Durex, and oil based lubricants can be used with them. They are strong, and are supposed to be impermeable to disease. Close, Hastur, but not quite. The company **Durex** manufactures the non-latex condom **Avanti**. But Durex also manufactures latex condoms. AFALK, Avanti is the only plastic non-latex condom on the market. (I’m not sure they’re polyurethane. See the website at [http://www.durex.com](http://www.durex.com) ) I also recommend Avanti for those allergic to latex. Avanti also doesn’t try to “reshape” you, as the stretchy latex condoms do. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2001, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/29 "2001-09-03T06:13:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CalMeacham \* > \*\* > Close, Hastur, but not quite. The company **Durex** manufactures the non-latex condom **Avanti**. But Durex also manufactures latex condoms. AFALK, Avanti is the only plastic non-latex condom on the market. (I’m not sure they’re polyurethane. See the website at [http://www.durex.com](http://www.durex.com) ) > > I also recommend Avanti for those allergic to latex. Avanti also doesn’t try to “reshape” you, as the stretchy latex condoms do. \*\* Actually, they are my condom of choice. I’ve read the box. They are polyurethane. They do sell them in polyurethane under Avanti and also their company name Durex. If you aren’t sure, reserve comment until you are. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2001, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/30 "2001-09-03T06:56:58Z")
If you can’t answer this question for your friend, I would suggest you get him in contact with a group like Gay Men’s Health Project. They can not only give advice about which condoms are better, but suggest satisfying sexual activities that are less risky than, say, receptive anal sex. It’s good you’re trying to give accurate education to this kid. It’s called “Harm Reduction.” You might check this website to see if they have any articles that might be helpful: [http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu](http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu). Jill ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2001, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/31 "2001-09-03T07:17:05Z")
The only time I’ve ever had a condom break, it was polyurethane (Trojan Supra). ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2001, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/32 "2001-09-03T11:55:32Z")
Because my mother could not use the Pill (taken off it for medical reasons), my parents were condom users for many years. At least 20, until mom went into menopause. During that time they worked very effectively to prevent pregnancy. Well, except for the time that resulted in me. Oops. Although I am not thrilled with the young man (and at 15, he is a young man and not a child) planning to have sex with the HIV+ gent (who, at 18, is also a young man) I am glad to see that he is giving some thought to improving his odds of not catching this disease. In addition to condoms, he should give some thought to activities that pose less rather than more risk as well. Then again, no where do I recall the OP explicitly stating anal sex was to be going on, or that the younger man would be the “bottom” (the more risky position). For all the OP says, we could be dealing with folks planning oral sex with condoms on, or mutual jerk-off with condoms on, and the pair are attempting to prevent any body fluid exchange whatsoever. Assuming the whole of gay sex is anal is like assuming the whole of straight sex is missionary intercourse - t’ain’t necessarily so. ---
**Author:** ![Lionors](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c37758/32.png) [@Lionors](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lionors)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2001, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/33 "2001-09-03T21:11:12Z")
Just to chuck in a possibly helpful link here, too – given the age of the people in question, there is an extremely informative, frank and very well done site called Scarleteen. The link is [http://www.scarleteen.com](http://www.scarleteen.com). He may also be able to get a better idea of the pros and cons about what he’s thinking of doing, also. Best of luck to you and to him. ---
**Author:** ![Sysop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Sysop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sysop)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2001, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/34 "2001-09-03T21:11:16Z")
Thanks for the info regarding the ineffectiveness of using TWO condoms, I didn’t know that. In regards to the nonoxynol-9, I fully understand that it’s not a guarantee of protection from ANYTHING, the point I was trying to make is that, “Yes, THIS condom is better than THAT one because…” ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2001, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/35 "2001-09-04T05:01:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tsunamisurfer \* > \*\* > BTW, can you spell “statutory rape”? It is defined as sexual intercourse with a person under a specified age. This age varies from state to state, but usually ranges from 12 to 18 years. > > I have no desire to debate the morality of a man (HIV-positive, no less) having sex with a child. The kid needs counseling, not a condom. The man is a creep, period. \*\* Rubbish. And, in many jurisdictions (such as New York, where I am an attorney) you’re wrong about statutory rape, too. It isn’t merely a question of the age of the “victim.” New York’s [statute](http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?cl=82&a=29) is wildly complicated, but it’s clear that where the “victim” and the “perp” are less than five years apart in age, the only charge that might stick is “sexual misconduct,” a misdemeanor. Prosecutors don’t go around trolling for misdemeanors - it’s more likely to be used for plea bargaining from rape/forcible sodomy/sexual abuse. Washington state, by contrast, makes it clear that provided the “victim” is at least fourteen, there’s no prosecutable offense at all if the “perp” is less than 4 years older: > [@](#): > > RCW 9A.44.079 > Rape of a child in the third degree. > (1) A person is guilty of rape of a child in the third degree when the person has sexual intercourse with another who is at least fourteen years old but less than sixteen years old and not married to the perpetrator and the perpetrator is at least forty-eight months older than the victim. > > ``` > (2) Rape of a child in the third degree is a class C felony. > > ``` Now then, a note on the Avanti polyurethane condoms: anecdotally, at least, there’s evidence that they’re a bit fragile for anal sex. I participated in an HIV vaccine study at the New York Blood Center (no, don’t get your hopes up - it’s gonna be years, if not decades, before we have anything really effective), which was among the first places to get the Avanti when they came out. The reports were discouraging - a higher incidence of failure than with latex. It’s possible the product’s been changed since then, but a quick google search hasn’t produced any recent studies evaluating the Avanti for use in buttsex. ---
**Author:** ![justinh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@justinh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justinh)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2001, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/36 "2001-09-04T14:16:22Z")
wouldn’t the correct answer to the original question be that all condoms are subject to breakage and thus not an adequate means of not contracting a serious disease. If the question is just a consumer reports percentage question then it has been answered, else the correct answer on how to keep a 15 year old from receiving the death sentence is simple, abstinance. ---
**Author:** ![that\_darn\_cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/59ef9b/32.png) [@that\_darn\_cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/that_darn_cat)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2001, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/37 "2001-09-04T19:27:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sysop \* > \*\* In regards to the nonoxynol-9, I fully understand that it’s not a guarantee of protection from ANYTHING, the point I was trying to make is that, “Yes, THIS condom is better than THAT one because…” \*\* Sorry to pummel the deceased equine, but you’re not getting it. Not only is nonoxynonl-9 not effective in reducing the risk of HIV inffection, it may in fact make transmission MORE likely. Read the link in my first post from the Center for Disease Control. So THAT condom IS NOT better than this one. No sarcasm or flaming intended, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![andygirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@andygirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andygirl)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2001, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/38 "2001-09-05T06:23:35Z")
A follow up- I asked a local HIV/AIDS worker and he informed me that the best brand that he knew of was Lifestyles. He also noted that in male/male sex there is no need to buy condoms with design “bells and whistles.” ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2001, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/39 "2001-09-05T09:18:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by justinh \* > wouldn’t the correct answer to the original question be that all condoms are subject to breakage and thus not an adequate means of not contracting a serious disease. If the question is just a consumer reports percentage question then it has been answered, else the correct answer on how to keep a 15 year old from receiving the death sentence is simple, abstinance. How about ALL of us just cross our legs and say “no” for the rest of our lives, huh? If abstinence was so simple it wouldn’t be so hard for people to adopt the practice. Fact is, death will _not_ stop people from having sex, whether it’s death from disease or death from punitive laws regarding sexual practices. Yeah, ideally folks without HIV shouldn’t be rolling the hay with folks with HIV, but if a person has already _decided_ he’s going to do it with the HIV+ then the discussion moves to how to reduce risk. ---
**Author:** ![justinh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@justinh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justinh)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2001, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948/40 "2001-09-05T15:25:59Z")
So you can’t tell a 15 year old to cross their legs or run the risk of death, disease, unwanted pregnacy,…? How young do you have to be before you can be told to wait to risk death? But maybe thats not the point of this thread. If the point is how do you keep from getting a death sentence, then the answer is abstinence. And if you are not able to practice it you are at risk of giving yourself a death sentence. Then we as a society can stop whining about the new cases and just mark it up to the facts of life. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/condoms-and-breakage/78948.md?page=3)