# Confederate base names going away **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 11, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855 "2020-12-11T20:23:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/1 "2020-12-11T20:23:59Z")
Shocked that the GOP is telling Trump to go F\*k himself on this bill. Approved In both house and senate. > **[Senate approves defense bill with veto-proof majority in rebuke to Trump |...](https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/politics/senate-defense-bill-trump-veto-proof-majority/index.html)** > > The Senate voted overwhelmingly on Friday to approve a sweeping defense bill with a veto-proof majority, a major rebuke to President Donald Trump who has urged Republican opposition and threatened to veto the legislation. The vote was 84 to 13. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/2 "2020-12-11T20:27:17Z")
Kevin McCarthy and House Republicans have already said they will not vote to override his veto, even though they voted for the bill. So final enactment of this bill is far from a done deal. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/3 "2020-12-11T20:31:44Z")
I can’t fathom why this has been tolerated for so long. Naming a post for say Bragg makes no more sense to me than to change the name of West Point to Benedict Arnold Point. These men were traitors. Why in heaven’s name did we ever think it was a good idea to train troops in a place named for someone who betrayed their oath to defend the Constitution? Should have been a no-brainer 50 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/4 "2020-12-11T20:47:42Z")
Pretty sure most of the bases named for confederates are in the South such as Ft. Bragg NC and Fort AP Hill. Virginia There are still many confederate monuments in the south even after many were removed or torn down this year . Most of the ones left are in small towns at least in NC. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/5 "2020-12-11T21:21:37Z")
For clarity, [Fort Bragg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Bragg) opened up for WWI as “Camp Bragg,” and [Fort A.P. Hill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._P._Hill) opened up in June of '41, both before Pearl Harbor dragged us into WWII. I would suspect that they were named for these guys, because these Generals were born in the state: [Bragg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braxton_Bragg) was born in North Carolina, and [[Hill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._P._Hill)]([https://Hill](https://Hill)) was a Virginian. I am **not** defending their current names, but am suggesting that naming bases for traitors wasn’t on anyone’s mind ~80+ years ago. It’s entirely possible that the Senators involved at the time, given those states, still considered Bragg and Hill “heroes.” Tripler I agree–there are better names for bases; we have better heroes nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/6 "2020-12-11T21:35:30Z")
It was entirely on their minds. First, they knew those scum were traitors but, and this is key, they did not care. Second, what they cared about is that those traitors were heroes to the southerners, the people suggesting the names. The confederacy won the peace, after all, and that’s because they love the mythical version of their past. Personally, I think t here should have been a law made immediately after the war to prohibit governmental glorification of traitors. Oh, and I lived on that US Army fort twice, once when my father was posted there and once when I was posted there. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/7 "2020-12-11T21:47:21Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > It was entirely on their minds. First, they knew those scum were traitors but, and this is key, they did not care. Second, what they cared about is that those traitors were heroes to the southerners, the people suggesting the names. I should have worded my earlier post better: The **War Department** didn’t have it on their mind, but the Southerners did. However, I see your point. Was the War Department pandering to the States’? Tripler I went TDY to Bragg a lot; it felt like I was stationed there. ---
**Author:** ![flurb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/51bf81/32.png) [@flurb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flurb)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/8 "2020-12-11T21:54:33Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > For clarity, [Fort Bragg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Bragg) opened up for WWI as “Camp Bragg,” and [Fort A.P. Hill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._P._Hill) opened up in June of '41, both before Pearl Harbor dragged us into WWII. > > I would suspect that they were named for these guys, because these Generals were born in the state: [Bragg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braxton_Bragg) was born in North Carolina, and [[Hill](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._P._Hill)]([https://Hill](https://Hill)) was a Virginian. Confederate John Bell Hood, Fort Hood’s namesake, has no particular connection to Texas yet his name is on the nations’ third largest military base smack in the middle of Texas. > [@Tripler](#): > > I am **not** defending their current names, but am suggesting that naming bases for traitors wasn’t on anyone’s mind ~80+ years ago. It’s entirely possible that the Senators involved at the time, given those states, still considered Bragg and Hill “heroes.” I’m not sure what to make of this paragraph. Nobody was unaware in the early 20th Century that Confederal generals had traitorously rebelled against the United States. And they were heroes to their home-state Senators – precisely because they had traitorously rebelled against the United States. Lost Cause ideology was well established in the South at this point. The military named the bases after Confederates because they needed to acquire large swaths of land for them and wanted buy-in from local and state politicians. It was transactional on the military’s part, but still shameful. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/9 "2020-12-11T21:54:45Z")
Texas’ AG should see other states for sending members to congress to override Trump’s veto. #Stoptheoverride! #FortTrump ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/10 "2020-12-11T21:56:24Z")
> [@Tripler](#): > > Was the War Department pandering to the States’? > > Tripler Sure. “We need eleventy thousand acres of land for a post.” “Sure, the state legislature will give you some we have out there in the sticks. Will you name it after Senator Leghorn’s granddad’s CO? He’s from that county. We’ll throw in the water permit.” “OK, why not?” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/11 "2020-12-11T21:59:16Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Kevin McCarthy and House Republicans have already said they will not vote to override his veto, even though they voted for the bill. What the hell did we expect. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/12 "2020-12-11T22:01:14Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > I’m not sure what to make of this paragraph. Nobody was unaware in the early 20th Century that Confederal generals had traitorously rebelled against the United States. And they were heroes to their home-state Senators – precisely because they had traitorously rebelled against the United States. Lost Cause ideology was well established in the South at this point. > > The military named the bases after Confederates because they needed to acquire large swaths of land for them and wanted buy-in from local and state politicians. It was transactional on the military’s part, but still shameful. That was what I was trying to convey (which I did. . . very poorly). Tripler I should wait until I get home to post. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/13 "2020-12-11T22:21:29Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > Confederate John Bell Hood, Fort Hood’s namesake, has no particular connection to Texas yet his name is on the nations’ third largest military base smack in the middle of Texas. I don’t know if I’d go that far; he served in Texas for a while before the war, and signed up as part of the Texas forces in the Civil War, going on to command the 4th Texas Regiment, and after that, the Texas Brigade during most of the engagements that gained its reputation, before being promoted to higher command. Personally, I think that the movement to rename Fort Hood as “Fort Benavidez” after Roy Benavidez, a Vietnam MOH winner, native Texan and Mexican-American is the way to go. The guy was a certified bad-ass- after the battle that he got his MOH in, they thought he was dead because of all his wounds, until he spit in the face of the doctor zipping him into the body bag. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/14 "2020-12-11T22:25:47Z")
> [@flurb](#): > > I’m not sure what to make of this paragraph. Nobody was unaware in the early 20th Century that Confederal generals had traitorously rebelled against the United States. And they were heroes to their home-state Senators – precisely because they had traitorously rebelled against the United States. Lost Cause ideology was well established in the South at this point. One has to note here that also on those days blacks were also fighting for integration in the armed forces, I would not be surprised that getting land for those bases also had an under the table agreement that southerners would get delays or no integration steps made by the feds in the armed forces. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/15 "2020-12-11T22:41:46Z")
We could keep Fort Bragg. Braxton Bragg did more for the Union cause in the Civil War than many Union generals. From his Wikipedia page (bolding mine): > Bragg is generally considered among the worst generals of the Civil War. **Most of the battles in which he engaged ended in defeat.** Bragg was extremely unpopular with both the men and the officers of his command, who criticized him for numerous perceived faults, including poor battlefield strategy, a quick temper, and overzealous discipline. Bragg has a generally poor reputation with historians, though some point towards the failures of Bragg’s subordinates, especially [Leonidas Polk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonidas_Polk)—a close ally of [Jefferson Davis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Davis) and known enemy of Bragg—as more significant factors in the many Confederate defeats at Bragg’s command. **The losses which Bragg suffered are cited as principal factors in the ultimate defeat of the [Confederacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederate_States_of_America).** ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/16 "2020-12-13T00:16:14Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > Braxton Bragg did more for the Union cause in the Civil War than many Union generals. I propose that all allusions to General Bragg in the context of Fort Bragg use the nomenclature General Braxton “God’s Gift to the Union Army” Bragg. Maybe after a few years of that, Lost Causers won’t be so set against renaming the base. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/17 "2020-12-13T01:14:25Z")
Just rename a base “Fort Traitor Loser” and that should cover it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/18 "2020-12-13T02:37:50Z")
General Jubilation T. Cornpone eh? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2020, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/19 "2020-12-13T07:25:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > General Jubilation T. Cornpone eh?  Exactly my thought. Bragg must have been the inspiration for the General Cornpone character. Video of the movie scene and song: [Jubilation T. Cornpone](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TfcJ82FAhw) [Lyrics here](https://www.lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/j/jubilationtcornponelilabnerthemusical.html). ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2020, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855/20 "2020-12-14T14:09:00Z")
orange man says he will veto it . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-base-names-going-away/927855.md?page=2)