# Confederate Battle Streamers for US Army units **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 18, 2022, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880 "2022-08-18T09:01:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2022, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/21 "2022-08-18T22:46:27Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > …in 1942, when people trusted the government 100%. This is absurd; I trust you don’t really mean it. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/22 "2022-08-19T01:07:35Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > If, in fact, there were actual plans by the US Government, the only institution that could pull it off, then I’d like to see proof of that. No, sorry, I did not mean to imply that there was any such intent on the part of the government to incarcerate American Muslims as a group after 9/11, just that a fair number of ordinary citizens seemed willing to consider it. I should have made it clearer that I wasn’t disagreeing with your father that general trust in government was higher in those days. Just pointing out that indifference to the rights of demonized groups can still be seen nowadays, and doesn’t require any particularly trusting attitude toward governmental security policies. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/23 "2022-08-19T03:16:51Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I should have made it clearer that I wasn’t disagreeing with your father that general trust in government was higher in those days. Just pointing out that indifference to the rights of demonized groups can still be seen nowadays, and doesn’t require any particularly trusting attitude toward governmental security policies. That’s a fair point, especially in times of war. ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/24 "2022-08-19T03:23:45Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > This is absurd; I trust you don’t really mean it. I should have qualified that. My father lived in San Francisco at that time, and while I’m sure it had its fair share of anarchists, communists, pacifists, and Republicans, literally everyone HE knew was a staunch FDR supporter, so from his point of view, everyone trusted the president. That may still sound like an overstatement, but I believe the country trusted FDR and the federal government, and I don’t think many people protested the round-up of people of Japanese descent after Pearl Harbor. I am not a historian. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/25 "2022-08-19T06:17:37Z")
FWIW, I doubt if there was much opposition in the UK to the mass internment of Germans and Italians in the UK, any more than there had been to interning German and Austrian men in WW1. But there was eventually some right of appeal for release on political/compassionate grounds, and opportunities to help the war effort for those accepted as genuine refugees. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/26 "2022-08-19T20:20:01Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > What the fuck? What happened in 1949 for someone to decide, “Hey, let’s go ahead and commemorate the CSA’s killing of US soldiers on US Army units’ banners”? IMO it should read, CSA’s and US Army units killing each other." The 1st Arkansas CSA cavalry fought the first Arkansas USA cavalry in Arkansas, Fayetteville, I believe. My point being, the tragedy was Americans killing each other. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/27 "2022-08-19T20:34:11Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Many active-duty regiments have various Indian Wars streamers as well, for fighting the Seminoles, Nez Perce, Comanches, Pine Ridge, etc… Those seem more problematic to me than battle streamers for units that were in Confederate service. There is that, and there’s also the fact that the Army tends to name its aircraft after Native American tribes. They have the permission of those tribes to do it, so it’s not problematic in that sense, but presumably the Natives also killed a bunch of Americans as well. The naming doesn’t celebrate or honor that fact, it’s just to foster a sense that we’re on the same side now. That being said, it’s 100% appropriate in the modern day to decide we need different symbolism and signaling. No matter how honorable the past intentions were, we don’t need to carry that baggage if it’s holding us back. Especially given the fact that arguably, the Confederates never _truly_ yielded and joined our side, and the spirit of rebellion seems to keep popping up, we need to purge all that stuff. Civilians can wear whatever dumb belt buckles and T-shirts they want, but we shouldn’t have confederate memorabilia flying from unit streamers. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/28 "2022-08-19T20:42:47Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Many active-duty regiments have various Indian Wars streamers as well, for fighting the Seminoles, Nez Perce, Comanches, Pine Ridge, etc… Those seem more problematic to me than battle streamers for units that were in Confederate service. I understand your point - but those were US units fighting against other nations. Whether we should be celebrating battles/wars of conquest that we instigated is a legitimate question, but IMO certainly less problematic then celebrating battles against USA units (which Confederate associated units are doing). I don’t have a problem with Union-side Guard regiments with streamers for Civil War battles, as they were the good guys defending the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/29 "2022-08-19T20:55:32Z")
> [@bump](#): > > They were Confederate units at the time, so that’s what the battle honors are for- battles/campaigns they participated in. They’re more of a historical acknowledgement saying that this regiment fought there, not an award for performance or anything. You yourself just called them “honors”. They’re not. They’re dishonors. Our armed forces should not, under any circumstances, honor treason against our nation, nor should states honor treason against those states. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > My point being, the tragedy was Americans killing each other. Yes, when you try to kill the people you’ve sworn to protect, they do often try to kill you right back. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2022, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/30 "2022-08-19T20:56:08Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > True. Criminy, where would they have put them all? The Italian-Ams alone… I think you would have had to cleared out Staten Island and fenced it off. You wouldn’t near to clear out Staten Island that much. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2022, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/31 "2022-08-20T17:23:15Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > You yourself just called them “honors”. They’re not. They’re dishonors. Our armed forces should not, under any circumstances, honor treason against our nation, nor should states honor treason against those states. They are neither. They are literally participation ribbons. Like it or not these units do have a history dating back through the Civil War. The history is researched and verified through the United States Army Institute of Heraldry. I am all for getting rid of honors and statues of traitors. This is much closer to what Trumpers yell about, erasing history. It is the history of these units. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/32 "2022-08-21T00:50:52Z")
Sure, it’s their history. But by waving them as banners, they’re celebrating/honoring that aspect of their history. Erasing history would be pretending that it didn’t happen. And that is largely what Trump supporters do when they try to stop things from being taught in schools. Put the banners in a museum. Don’t wave them. ---
**Author:** ![Turki-lurki](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/turki-lurki/32/7168_2.png) [@Turki-lurki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turki-lurki)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/33 "2022-08-21T01:37:26Z")
It’s worth remembering that people discussed various means of isolating people with AIDS when that first roke out. Scared people can quickly become tools of evil- a thing we might do well to remember now. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/34 "2022-08-21T04:32:02Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Sure, it’s their history. But by waving them as banners, they’re celebrating/honoring that aspect of their history. > > Erasing history would be pretending that it didn’t happen. And that is largely what Trump supporters do when they try to stop things from being taught in schools. > > Put the banners in a museum. Don’t wave them. They aren’t banners. Nobody is waving them. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/35 "2022-08-21T19:53:56Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > Interestingly, there was no such animus toward Germans or Italians during the war. I suppose the Japanese were easier to identify and persecute than the others. I’ve read that some government officials seriously considered interning all the Germans and Italians, but concluded that there were too many of them to make such action practical. But the government did take lesser steps. > **[During World War II, the U.S. Saw Italian-Americans as a Threat to Homeland...](https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/italian-americans-were-considered-enemy-aliens-world-war-ii-180962021/)** > > The executive order that forced Japanese-Americans from their homes also put immigrants from Italy under the watchful eye of the government ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/36 "2022-08-21T19:58:23Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > They aren’t banners. Nobody is waving them. They’re streamers and people are flying them. That looks to me like a distinction without a difference. And if this is the history of these units, then the question still remains, why? Abolish the old, treasonous units, and replace them with new units without that history. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/37 "2022-08-21T20:02:12Z")
It’s not as if this has been a long standing tradition of US military units displaying confederate campaign streamers. It was begun the year after integration started in the military as a fuck you to black troops and Truman. We can go back to the way it was before the change. ---
**Author:** ![GWF\_Hefel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/898d66/32.png) [@GWF\_Hefel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GWF_Hefel)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/38 "2022-08-21T21:52:17Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > They are neither. They are literally participation ribbons. Like it or not these units do have a history dating back through the Civil War. The history is researched and verified through the United States Army Institute of Heraldry. I am all for getting rid of honors and statues of traitors. This is much closer to what Trumpers yell about, erasing history. It is the history of these units. Do you think the National Guard unit in Ohio has a Kent State battle streamer? Thank **you** for participating. One of the many pastimes we developed in my infantry unit in the 101st, when we weren’t training or picking up trash, was to ID officers with Americal combat patches. (You know, the baby killers.) Didn’t trust them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/39 "2022-08-25T17:03:27Z")
My recollection is that only German and Italian nationals were interned in the UK during WWII. The US government rounded up more or less everyone of Japanese ancestry on the West Coast. The majority were _US citizens_. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880/40 "2022-08-25T17:49:38Z")
The US interred a few German and Italian nationals but only those who were active Nazis/fascists before the war. As you said all people of Japanese ancestry were interred if they lived in the Western continental US, some of them second generation Americans. They didn’t do that in Hawaii because it would have been logistically impossible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confederate-battle-streamers-for-us-army-units/969880.md?page=3)