# Confess!!! (your climate sins) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 19, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502 "2019-09-19T16:39:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/21 "2019-09-20T01:34:27Z")
My sin/confession is I do not give a flying flock about plastic straws as an environmental threat ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/22 "2019-09-20T02:44:57Z")
Bad: I got rid of the Prius and bought a gas user Good: I only put about 5,000 miles per year on it and use public transit for most city travel. Bad: I have an RV Good: It’s a van conversion and we only use it a few times per year Bad: We have an AC Good: It’s energy efficient and a heat pump. Also, we have a tankless water heater. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/23 "2019-09-20T02:56:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The Right has long felt that the environmental movement was becoming essentially a religion for the Left. Does the Right believe that about other branches of science? Do they feel that chemistry is a religion? How about physics? Do they feel that gravity if just a miracle that the physics god produces whenever we fall down? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/24 "2019-09-20T03:08:44Z")
When one remembers that Richard Nixon proposed the establishment of EPA and many Republicans then approved it, one can see how far have the Republicans of today have fallen for gross misinformation. > **[Making the Case for the Value of Environmental Rules](https://e360.yale.edu/features/economy_and_the_environment_the_case_for_environmental_rules)** > > Some U.S. politicians have been attacking environmental regulations, arguing that they hurt the economy and that the costs outweigh the benefits. But four decades of data refute that claim and show we need not choose between a clean environment and... > [@](#): > > In recent months, some in Congress have been waging a whole-scale war against the Environmental Protection Agency. By now it has reached comical dimensions, with three separate bills aimed at preventing a so-called EPA “dust rule” that has never even existed. > > The spectacle would indeed be funny, if it wasn’t deadly serious. Republicans in Congress and in the GOP presidential debates are seeking to defund an already cash-strapped EPA under the pretense of caring about the federal deficit and are trying to hamper the agency by arguing that its rules hurt the economy. > > Quite to the contrary. We have 40 years of data to show that a cleaner environment goes hand in hand with solid economic growth. > [@](#): > > Harvard Professor Dale W. Jorgenson, one of the deans of macroeconomic modeling who has been honing his model of the U.S. economy for decades, calculates that gross domestic product in 2010 was 1.5 percent higher because of the Clean Air Act of 1970. It turns out that protecting children from foul air leads to more productive adult workers. > > That’s the moral equivalent of arguing for child labor laws by saying that keeping kids in school will increase their earnings as adults. But even this reductionist argument, focused only on a narrow definition of dollars and cents, works to show the benefits of cleaner air. > > Overall, benefits of the 1970 Clean Air Act exceed costs by a factor of 30 to 1. The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments match that ratio: $1 of investments led to $30 in benefits — fewer children sick or dying, more productive workers, and healthier environs. > [@](#): > > When detractors speak of the enormous costs associated with sensible global warming policy, we can safely discount these figures. But we should always remember that one person’s “cost” is another’s “investment.” A dollar spent is a dollar pumped into an economy that sorely needs more spending to create jobs. > > “Green growth” isn’t just a catch phrase. It’s the only way to reconcile our relentless pursuit for material wealth on a finite planet with an atmosphere at the boiling point. The fact is that sound environmental regulations — whether they address dirty air or an overheating planet — can create jobs and be a boost, rather than a burden, for the economy. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/25 "2019-09-20T03:28:42Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > I confess…after 10 years of owning a hybrid car, I sold it and got a full-blown gas guzzler. I bought a 2001 Honda Insight, the first hybrid I’d ever seen, but eventually the hybrid battery went bad. Yes, I could have spent $1200-2k for a new one, but I disconnected it and am driving my little two-seater as a ::gasp:: ordinary car. Guilt-free, ya hippie eco-hipsters. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/26 "2019-09-20T04:48:50Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Basically anyone who burns fossil fuel for fun or luxury ends up being tagged as a climate-sinner. Enjoy airshows? Sinner. Motorsports? Sinner. Running the AC when a fan would do? Sinner. Dry your clothes in a machine instead of on a line? Sinner. Hot oatmeal? Sinner. Since this apparently passed unnoticed, I just wanted to draw attention to the slide into absurdity of these examples. What, are we supposed to eat our oatmeal raw? And if we don’t have space or weather to dry clothes outdoors, we’re supposed to let them drip on the carpet? You appear to be trying to demonize anyone who cares about climate change by putting ridiculous words in their mouths. I presume from your attitude that you don’t have children or anyone younger than yourself whom you worry about leaving the world in a worse state than you found it. I am fortunate, too, in that regard in that I’ll be dead (I hope) before the worst of climate change takes effect, and I’m not leaving any descendants, but for some reason I still seem to care about it. Funny old world. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/27 "2019-09-20T05:02:15Z")
> [@digs](#): > > I bought a 2001 Honda Insight, the first hybrid I’d ever seen, but eventually the hybrid battery went bad. Yes, I could have spent $1200-2k for a new one, but I disconnected it and am driving my little two-seater as a ::gasp:: ordinary car. > > Guilt-free, ya hippie eco-hipsters. so, you’re driving a very fuel efficient 18 year old subcompact? what’s the problem? ;)spread the CO2 produced in manufacturing the car over 18 years? the carbon footprint must be minimal. I’m in a similar way, my '12 VW Golf TDI may only be a mere 8 years old, but the VW diesel engines are basically bulletproof, and it’s not unusual to get 300,000-400,000 miles off them, some have been 700,000+, plus mine has the diesel particulate filter (no soot in the tailpipe even at 5,000 miles), my plan is to run it until the wheels fall off, then repair it and run it until they fall off again, the only downside is here in New England, the winter road salt loves to eat the chassis, most new England cars have the body rot off before the engine dies spread the carbon produced in manufacture over 400,000 miles and it’s minimal …it’s certainly better than buying a new car every four years… ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/28 "2019-09-20T06:01:27Z")
We upgraded from a 900sf apartment near San Diego to a 2200sf house in Eugene with central AC and heat (lose). However, we have excellent insulation and double glazed windows throughout and our electric bills are lesd than we used to pay (win). For the second time in time in my life I have to drive nearly everywhere (lose) On the other hand, 85% of our power comes from hydro and 10% from renewable sources (win win!). Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/29 "2019-09-20T06:25:29Z")
Sin is not a concept I subscribe to. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/30 "2019-09-20T11:38:47Z")
My carbon footprint is less than Al Gore’s, so I’m golden. I have nothing to confess. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/31 "2019-09-20T11:48:07Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > What, are we supposed to eat our oatmeal raw? No, just pour cold water on it and wait for it to soak in. It takes a little longer, but you’ll reduce your carbon footprint. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > And if we don’t have space or weather to dry clothes outdoors, we’re supposed to let them drip on the carpet? Don’t be silly. They don’t drip if you run them through [a hand-cranked wringer](https://www.amazon.com/Crank-Clothes-Wringer-Calliger-Rollers/dp/B00OAPW6GM) before drying them on a line or rack in your living room. I remember doing this at my grandma’s house back in the 1970s (no joke). > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > You appear to be trying to demonize anyone who cares about climate change by putting ridiculous words in their mouths. The concept of “sin” is that it is a bright, hard line that is not to be crossed. I’m bothered by the difficulty of defining what is and is not a “climate sin,” and dove into the absurd to make that point. [This Cracked article is relevant,](https://www.cracked.com/blog/why-every-terrible-person-thinks-theyE28099re-hero/) particularly point #3. An excerpt: > [@Cracked.com](#): > > I’ve never been around an activist group that didn’t turn into an endless series of petty purity tests. > … > The natural evolution is toward tighter and tighter criteria for what behavior gets you shunned from the group. The end result is that the central cause, the group’s JWD, can be as pure as the driven snow, and yet the tone will get more and more toxic over time, the members becoming less and less charitable with each other. I think it is good to encourage people to reduce their carbon footprint, but I think it’s dangerous to do so by trying to binarize activities as either “sin” or “not-sin”. For every future-minded person driving a hybrid car, there’s someone else who feels superior for driving an all-electric car - and someone else who opted for an electrically-assisted bicycle. And someone else who opted for a conventional pedal bicycle. And then there’s that other hard-core green guy who stubbornly walks three miles to and from work each day, not because he’s poor or needs the exercise, but because it’s the lowest carbon footprint he could come up with for his commute. He sees all of us as climate-sinners. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/32 "2019-09-20T13:32:57Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > > > And if we don’t have space or weather to dry clothes outdoors, we’re supposed to let them drip on the carpet? You appear to be trying to demonize anyone who cares about climate change by putting ridiculous words in their mouths. > > Don’t be silly. They don’t drip if you run them through [a hand-cranked wringer](https://www.amazon.com/Crank-Clothes-Wringer-Calliger-Rollers/dp/B00OAPW6GM) before drying them on a line or rack in your living room. I remember doing this at my grandma’s house back in the 1970s (no joke). Are you joking or do American washing machines not have a spin cycle? I regularly dry the clothes on a rack in the spare room, and they come out of the machine damp, not dripping wet. What’s the point of tumble-drying everything? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/33 "2019-09-20T13:58:11Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Are you joking or do American washing machines not have a spin cycle? What are you doing using a washing machine? That takes electricity! Sinner! 😛 Can’t speak for **Roderick Femm,** but my grandmother was English, living in England. The washing machine that she had back in the 1970s did not have a spin feature, so yes, a wringer was required. At some point she replaced the wringer with a separate machine whose sole purpose was the spin cycle. So wash the clothes in the washer, transfer them to the spinner, then transfer them to the clothesline. Fun times. In Japan these days, it’s pretty typical to have one single machine that does it all: wash, spin, heat-dry. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/34 "2019-09-20T14:15:33Z")
I’m liking post 31. It’s a good one, and I agree. ---
**Author:** ![HeweyLogan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heweylogan/32/547_2.png) [@HeweyLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeweyLogan)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/35 "2019-09-20T14:20:05Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Much laughter will ensue because it’s pretty clearly tongue in cheek. Really? What makes you think that? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/36 "2019-09-20T14:35:52Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > If the righties think it has become a religion, then guess what? The right is wrong as hell, as usual. Lefties generally care about the environment, and respect the science that claims we’re doing great harm. It’s a classic tactic of deniers. “Yur science is just a religion ha ha ha!!” Antivaxers play this game too. If your position is based on solid evidence that can be replicated by quality peer-reviewed published research, that somehow equates to sun worship. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![racer72](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/racer72/32/3075_2.png) [@racer72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racer72)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/37 "2019-09-20T15:03:18Z")
I drive a gas guzzler, get about 13 miles to a gallon. I try to reuse plastic bags as much as possible. My wife and I reuse zip lock bags unless they had meat in them. The amount of waste generated by my employer is absolutely ridiculous. It’s considered the cost of doing business. A lot of what is thrown away could be recycled and/or reused but it costs more than just throwing it away. Some big airplane parts come in big plywood boxes. They go straight to the trash, I could make a lot of things from the wood. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/38 "2019-09-20T15:23:16Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s a classic tactic of deniers. “Yur science is just a religion ha ha ha!!” > … Yeah, and since the jist of the OP is right vs. left, I don’t consider this a hijack. Right vs. left is a way to make it sound like merely a political difference. But it’s not that. Scientists around the world are concerned about our effect on climate and the environment. It’s pretty much American political conservatives who oppose the science. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/39 "2019-09-20T16:00:29Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > It’s a classic tactic of deniers. “Yur science is just a religion ha ha ha!!” > > Antivaxers play this game too. We used to be able to point to flat-earthers to show how ridiculous this argument is. I think these days they’d say “well, maybe they have a point!” ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502/40 "2019-09-20T16:04:17Z")
> [@HeweyLogan](#): > > Really? What makes you think that? The fact that climate change isnt a religion – for one, it’s not based on faith or a book written thousands of years ago, it’s based on evidence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confess-your-climate-sins/840502.md?page=3)