# Confiscation of guns: What do gun owners fear exactly? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 10, 2019, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510 "2019-01-10T05:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/81 "2019-01-11T00:04:05Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Suppose Trump’s base voters came out in force over the next couple elections, empowering some of the most conservative zealots this country has to offer. Then, they decide that they’re so fed up with “fake news” that they’re going to go ahead and repeal freedom of the press. Would you be comfortable with that? Like it or not, we’re on that slippery slope right now. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/82 "2019-01-11T02:12:48Z")
I wish everyone would go read **Lumpy** ’s post #80 a few times. Well done, **Lumpy**. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/83 "2019-01-11T02:21:15Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think it’s a circular argument to say that the rights in the Bill of Rights are important because they’re in the Bill of Rights. > > No, I wouldn’t be happy if freedom of speech and freedom of the press were abolished. But that’s because I think those particular rights are important in and of themselves not because they’re in the Bill of Rights. I don’t attach the same importance to my constitutional right to have a jury trial in lawsuits involving property worth more than twenty dollars. Fair enough. But understand that people need to realize other people _do_. And this thread is asking about those other people. The OP’s question asking, “What scary thing might happen after all the government thugs kick in doors and take everyone’s guns following a gun ban?” That’s the scary thing people fear. It’s not necessarily what happens _next_. That’s the terminal event; the sum of all fears. Every piece of gun legislation, they fear, puts us one step closer to the day when guns are banned and the government comes to get them. It would be more productive to discuss why they fear _that_. The question should be, “Why are people so scared of the government stripping away their constitutional rights, entering their home without permission, and taking their legally purchased property?” And in my opinion, it’s because it’s a scary thought to live in a country that could so easily vote away a major right, and a major part of their identity, and then send in armed government thugs to enter their homes to take their property. I dunno, the OP just struck me as strange to frame a question that basically says, “Suppose the country becomes a dystopian police state. What is the feared result of that?” The country becoming a dystopian police state _is_ the feared result. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/84 "2019-01-11T04:59:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “The people in this country that have guns”? > If a law is passed restricting gun access to those of the Muslim religion will patriots rise up with their weapons to defend them? Oh Hell yeah. The NRA and its core membership is like the ACLU (when they fought for the Nazis who wanted the march near Chicago) in that they will fight tooth and nail for people they may not like very much whenever it involves what they see as “gun rights”. You can love them, hate them, or be totally meh about the whole thing; but they are consistent like that. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/85 "2019-01-11T05:28:13Z")
If you went through the regular process to abolish any amendment, then you’d assume at that point that most people would be okay with it. If you waved a magic wand and abolished say, the 2nd amendment, then you’d find that a good number of states would immediately make their own 2nd amendment. Many of them actually already have that language in their constitutions ([40 of them, apparently](https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/39-states-have-constitutional/)), though it remains to be seen what force they actually have. In other words, a repeal wouldn’t change a whole lot, but fighting for it is against the political will of most people. The point is that none of the amendments actually grant rights, they only recognize what is believed to be a natural right, and redistrict infringements of said rights. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/86 "2019-01-11T08:48:28Z")
I haven’t read the entirety of the thread, but I have to ask: why does abolition of the Second Amendment mean that guns are banned? I live in a country where guns are allowed, but are not a constitutional right. Nobody in a uniform has shown up on my doorstep demanding to see papers, or demand to see storage. Sure, they could (well, no, not without a search warrant), but they aren’t. I don’t have the right to possess firearms, but I am allowed the privilege to own them. And I have, for years, as a responsible gun owner. Abolishing the right to gun ownership is not the same as a gun ban. You can still own guns–you just have to do so within parameters laid down by the government you elected, and if your breach those parameters–wll, bye-bye gun privileges. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/87 "2019-01-11T12:00:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You have no concept of how many rounds of ammunition are already in private hands, do you? I do, but there’s a lot being sold every day as well. I’m not a proponent, but I’m thinking the easiest way to eliminate firearms is to 1) stop selling them, and 2) stop feeding them. The desired result would not be immediate, but it would come gradually, which is a necessary pace when you’re looking for a peaceful cultural change. But it won’t happen because no single politician would have a result to crow about in their reelection campaign–there’s no money in stepping in the right direction and letting the next generation reap what you’ve sown. But we’re turning this into a gun control thread. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/88 "2019-01-11T12:59:24Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > You seriously wouldn’t be concerned with a repeal of the 1st of the 4th amendment? You would just accept that it was “democratically passed for the benefit of We the People”? No fear or concern for what the government might be capable of if somehow they managed to ban free speech or ban due process? Please tell us what \*you \*think it takes to amend the Constitution. You could read it and find out, if you’re not sure. > [@Lumpy](#): > > First of all, to actually repeal the Second Amendment there would have to be an enormous shift in American society, with gun owners reduced to a negligible minority and the overwhelming supermajority of Americans being willing to actively support the measure. Yes, and that’s one of the ways we advance as a society. > [@](#): > > If what was clearly at the time intended to be a protection for a fundamental right There is, as you might admit, \*considerable \*disagreement about that claim. To put it mildly. > [@](#): > > So why would gun owners hate to see guns banned? For starters self-defense is a legitimate concern. The muzzle of a gun is a sight that deters all but the most violent and/or insane from attacking the gun’s holder. Yet the concealed-carry types claim they’d be heroes, and even victorious, when seeing such a thing in the hands of a Bad Guy. The anonymous Internet claims are brave, but the reality, not so much. > [@](#): > > As for the tyrannical government argument It’s just silly, especially given your acknowledgment right above, in thais very post, about the changes that would have to occur among We The People before the gun-grabbing could commence. You really ought to be ashamed to bring it up. > [@](#): > > history is not in the least encouraging about what happens when the common people are forbidden to possess weapons and their possession and use restricted to an elite class of government enforcers. Except for most of the world. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > The people with weapons have inevitably told those without “shut up and do what you’re told”. That is, essentially, what people who cannot make a convincing argument to the majority in a democracy has to do. Your claim is that it constitutes tyranny, not your own failure. > [@](#): > > no government that would _have_ to ban guns just to remain in power could be called a democracy. Why do you think the Founding Fathers thought they’d need militias to suppress insurrections? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/89 "2019-01-11T13:46:35Z")
Several in the thread have mentioned the Siege of Waco as the government tyranny “we” need our guns to protect against. For the young’uns, here’s an excerpt from Wikipedia to give some insight into these all-American gunlovers that the oppressive Feds besieged. > [@](#): > > … After the death of Lois Roden and probate of her estate in January 1987, Howell [aka David Koresh] attempted to gain control of Mount Carmel Center by force. George Roden had dug up the casket of Anna Hughes[sup][who?][/sup] from the Davidian cemetery and had challenged Howell to a resurrection contest to prove who was the rightful heir to the leadership. Howell instead went to the police and claimed Roden was guilty of corpse abuse, but the county prosecutors refused to file charges without proof. On November 3, 1987, Howell and seven armed companions tried to get into the Mount Carmel chapel, with the goal of photographing the body in the casket as evidence to incriminate Roden. Roden was advised of the interlopers and grabbed an Uzi in response. The Sheriff’s Department responded about 20 minutes into the gunfight, during which Roden had been wounded. Sheriff Harwell got Howell on the phone and told him to stop shooting and surrender. Howell and his companions, dubbed the “Rodenville Eight” by the media, were tried for attempted murder on April 12, 1988; seven were acquitted, and the jury was hung on Howell’s verdict. The county prosecutors did not press the case further. > > While waiting for the trial, Roden was put in jail under contempt of court charges because of his use of foul language in some court pleadings; he threatened the Texas court with sexually transmitted diseases if the court ruled in favor of Howell. The next day, Perry Jones and a number of Howell’s other followers moved from their headquarters in Palestine, Texas, to Mount Carmel. In mid-1989, Roden used an axe to kill a Davidian named Wayman Dale Adair, who visited him to discuss Adair’s vision of being God’s chosen messiah. He was found guilty under an insanity defense and was committed to a mental hospital… > On August 5, 1989, Howell released the “New Light” audio tape, in which he said that he had been told by God to procreate with the women in the group to establish a “House of David” of his “special people”. This involved separating married couples in the group, who had to agree that only he could have sexual relations with the wives, while the men should observe celibacy. Howell also said that God had told him to start building an “Army for God” to prepare for the end of days and a salvation for his followers. > … > … an investigation concluded in 2000 that sect members had started the fire … The Texas Rangers’ arson investigator report assumes that many of the occupants were either denied escape from within or refused to leave until escape was not an option. The actions of the jackbooted gun-grabbing state seem, if anything, over-restrained here. I’m rather befuddled that the events at Waco are cited by gun nuts as a point in their favor. (No, I don’t know know who Anna Hughes is either.) ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/90 "2019-01-11T14:15:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So if both sides act like one-dimensional characters in a William Johnstone militiaporn paperback, the revolution will happen? Timothy McVeigh was a real person, not a one-dimensional character. I’m not saying all gun lovers will turn into Timothy McVeigh, but it won’t take a whole lot of them and based of some of the militia stuff I’ve seen there are probably hundreds that are a hair’s breadth away from him right now. And the only way to confiscate all the guns is through armed ransacking. _knock knock knock_ “Ya got any guns? No? Okay have a good day citizen.” ain’t gonna work. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/91 "2019-01-11T14:20:15Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I haven’t read the entirety of the thread, but I have to ask: why does abolition of the Second Amendment mean that guns are banned? You’re right, it doesn’t. IIRC, 44 states have gun rights built into their constitution. So it still fall into a states right’s issue. But the first step to nation-wide gun confiscation would be repealing the 2nd (which isn’t going to happen either). Actually, the first step is a national gun registry, but that’s another topic. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/92 "2019-01-11T14:31:15Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I haven’t read the entirety of the thread, but I have to ask: why does abolition of the Second Amendment mean that guns are banned? Why else go through the process of abolishing the amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/93 "2019-01-11T14:49:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **kopek** : > > Oh Hell yeah. The NRA and its core membership is like the ACLU (when they fought for the Nazis who wanted the march near Chicago) in that they will fight tooth and nail for people they may not like very much whenever it involves what they see as “gun rights”. You can love them, hate them, or be totally meh about the whole thing; but they are consistent like that. Cite? Because whenever I’ve seen any issue about blacks or Hispanics with guns, the NRA never seems to have their backs. Like, that black guy who was shot because he told a cop that he had a concealed carry, and then followed the cop’s instructions: Did the NRA push for the cop’s prosecution? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/94 "2019-01-11T15:05:42Z")
Yeah, I gotta admit the NRAs position vis-a-vis persons of color is dodgy at best. > **[The NRA’s Catch-22 for Black Men Shot by Police](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/the-nras-catch-22-for-black-men-shot-by-police/570124/)** > > A National Rifle Association spokesperson says Botham Jean would still be alive if he'd had a firearm. But when African Americans legally bearing arms are shot by police, the organization’s media outlet doesn’t defend them. There’s clearly a disconnect there in which the organization’s communications people are stuck between ‘defend from crime’ and ‘black men with guns’. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/95 "2019-01-11T15:10:14Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > What gun owners fear is that a clique of strident social engineers will seek to impose their vision of what American society ought to be on the public: by spurring a moral panic against guns, by demonizing gun owners, by a steady trickle of precedents that eat away at legal protection for owning guns. Which, I might point out, is what other conservative - I won’t speculate on the overlap between the gun guys and the anti-abortion guys - have been doing for a few decades about abortion. Small steps, chipping away at a right defined by the Supreme Court leading to a hoped-for ability to ban abortion completely. What the gun guys fear, outlined above, is a reasonable thing given that their own allies are using the same approach. A man fears most what he knows HE would do in the same situation. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/96 "2019-01-11T15:18:39Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’m not saying the heavy gun control laws would end all gun-related crimes. But let’s face it, the Second Amendment hasn’t ended all gun-related crimes either, has it? If gun ownership was a perfect solution, then everyone would own a gun and no crimes would ever occur because everyone would have the means to defend themselves. That’s obviously not the reality. > > So private gun ownership is one attempt to prevent crimes which doesn’t provide a perfect solution to the problem. And gun control laws are a different attempt to prevent crimes which wouldn’t provide a perfect solution to the problem. Now that we’ve acknowledged that neither approach is perfect, can we compare them and see which one produces better results? I’m actually an advocate of fairly strict licensing requirements for gun ownership; the problem isn’t with the guns themselves, and there are too many extant guns to reasonably deal with in any realistic time period, so I’d think that putting the emphasis on the people buying/using the guns is the right place to go. Mostly in hopes of identifying and prohibiting the mentally ill from having access to guns, as criminals already don’t pay attention to the laws (why they’re criminals!). It’s not a perfect scheme either- someone could be duly licensed and still commit a crime of passion, but if done right, could prevent a lot of the mass shootings we see. (part of my idea would be that licensing would require insurance, and that insurance would require verified secure storage or else the premiums would be astronomical) ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/97 "2019-01-11T15:28:51Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > In the meantime I’m finding it interesting that[more Europeans are now buying guns.](https://www.rt.com/news/357002-firearms-europe-spike-permits/) Russia Today is a propaganda website. I suggest you search for another, legitimate source for this supposed information. ---
**Author:** ![Royal\_Nonesutch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@Royal\_Nonesutch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Royal_Nonesutch)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/98 "2019-01-11T15:35:12Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Like, that black guy who was shot because he told a cop that he had a concealed carry, and then followed the cop’s instructions: Did the NRA push for the cop’s prosecution? Can you say specifically which “black guy” this is who you are referring to? ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/99 "2019-01-11T15:37:17Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Which, I might point out, is what other conservative - I won’t speculate on the overlap between the gun guys and the anti-abortion guys - have been doing for a few decades about abortion. Small steps, chipping away at a right defined by the Supreme Court leading to a hoped-for ability to ban abortion completely. > > What the gun guys fear, outlined above, is a reasonable thing given that their own allies are using the same approach. A man fears most what he knows HE would do in the same situation. I’m not a gun “guy” (female) and the anti-abortion folks are definitely not my allies. I consider myself as leaning liberal and I own a gun. I am concerned about government’s relationship to gun ownership, as well as many people on this very thread who I believe identify as “liberal” and yet are willing, even eager, to give up rights to their “government” without recognizing that yes, one thing really does lead to another. As for fearing most what he (sic) knows HE (sic) would do: I know I would not paint the whole world with the broadest brush possible. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/100 "2019-01-11T15:38:38Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > Russia Today is a propaganda website. I suggest you search for another, legitimate source for this supposed information. A cursory glance at the article shows it was sourced from Reuters. Is Reuters good enough for you? [https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-attacks-guns/europeans-turn-to-weapons-in-growing-numbers-after-attacks-idUSKCN10Y19U](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-europe-attacks-guns/europeans-turn-to-weapons-in-growing-numbers-after-attacks-idUSKCN10Y19U) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510.md?page=6)