# Confiscation of guns: What do gun owners fear exactly? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 10, 2019, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510 "2019-01-10T05:53:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/101 "2019-01-11T15:42:44Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Fair enough. But understand that people need to realize other people _do_. And this thread is asking about those other people. The OP’s question asking, “What scary thing might happen after all the government thugs kick in doors and take everyone’s guns following a gun ban?” That’s the scary thing people fear. It’s not necessarily what happens _next_. That’s the terminal event; the sum of all fears. Every piece of gun legislation, they fear, puts us one step closer to the day when guns are banned and the government comes to get them. It would be more productive to discuss why they fear _that_. The question should be, “Why are people so scared of the government stripping away their constitutional rights, entering their home without permission, and taking their legally purchased property?” And in my opinion, it’s because it’s a scary thought to live in a country that could so easily vote away a major right, and a major part of their identity, and then send in armed government thugs to enter their homes to take their property. > I dunno, the OP just struck me as strange to frame a question that basically says, “Suppose the country becomes a dystopian police state. What is the feared result of that?” The country becoming a dystopian police state _is_ the feared result. Yes, but the repeal of the Second Amendment can only happen by a process that requires a large majority of the population to support it. Calling such a process the harbinger of a dystopian police state is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/102 "2019-01-11T15:49:37Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I haven’t read the entirety of the thread, but I have to ask: why does abolition of the Second Amendment mean that guns are banned? > > I live in a country where guns are allowed, but are not a constitutional right. Nobody in a uniform has shown up on my doorstep demanding to see papers, or demand to see storage. Sure, they could (well, no, not without a search warrant), but they aren’t. I don’t have the right to possess firearms, but I am allowed the privilege to own them. And I have, for years, as a responsible gun owner. > > Abolishing the right to gun ownership is not the same as a gun ban. You can still own guns–you just have to do so within parameters laid down by the government you elected, and if your breach those parameters–wll, bye-bye gun privileges. A lot of people act like the only two possibilities are unrestricted gun ownership and a complete ban. Guns are a topic in which it seems like only the two extremes are heard. Personally, I’d like to see gun ownership treated as the equivalent of driving and owning a car. People would generally be allowed to own guns. But guns would be regulated and there would be standards which would prohibit ownership in some cases. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/103 "2019-01-11T15:51:25Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > Can you say specifically which “black guy” this is who you are referring to? Good point. There are dozens of instances of “Cop shoots black guy because he was black.” (I recall one such just as **Chronos** described and will bet ten gallons of rum I could find it in less than a minute’s Googling – were there others just like it?) Blacks are shot for reaching for their driver’s license after cop tells them to reach for their driver’s license. For a black to tell a cop he’s carrying seems suicidal. So I’m not sure American _cops_ are competent to carry guns. The idea that America’s greatness depends on every Branch Davidian or neo-Nazi having a cellar-full of guns seems absurd. BTW: In many of these cop-shoots-obviously-innocent-black stories, the black is left to bleed out with no first aid or call to paramedics. Is this also part of NRA/gunlover doctrine? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/104 "2019-01-11T15:53:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, but the repeal of the Second Amendment can only happen by a process that requires a large majority of the population to support it. Calling such a process the harbinger of a dystopian police state is wrong. IF the Constitution is changed in that way, by the will of the people, then the justification will change to “God-Given Rights” and/or “Natural Law”. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/105 "2019-01-11T15:53:47Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I haven’t read the entirety of the thread, but I have to ask: why does abolition of the Second Amendment mean that guns are banned? In the OP, I wrote that the 2A was repealed and also that laws were passed, to confiscate guns. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/106 "2019-01-11T15:56:02Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, but the repeal of the Second Amendment can only happen by a process that requires a large majority of the population to support it. Calling such a process the harbinger of a dystopian police state is wrong. I’ve always thought a lot of gun owners goalposted immediately on this. “The Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms - therefore we have a legal right to own guns, the law must be upheld and respected” \*\* asks gun owners what if the 2A were repealed and laws passed to ban gun ownership \*\* “We have a _moral/philosophical_ right to bear arms, we won’t obey the law!” ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/107 "2019-01-11T16:02:27Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Which, I might point out, is what other conservative - I won’t speculate on the overlap between the gun guys and the anti-abortion guys - have been doing for a few decades about abortion. Small steps, chipping away at a right defined by the Supreme Court leading to a hoped-for ability to ban abortion completely. > > What the gun guys fear, outlined above, is a reasonable thing given that their own allies are using the same approach. A man fears most what he knows HE would do in the same situation. In many ways, gun owners are to conservatives what pro-choicers are to liberals: People who consider a particular right to be cherished and fiercely defended, and fear that others want to eventually repeal their right (via judges, elections) to have. Although a woman’s uterus is arguably of greater direct physical importance to her than whether a gun owner has his Glock or not. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/108 "2019-01-11T16:21:01Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Cite? Because whenever I’ve seen any issue about blacks or Hispanics with guns, the NRA never seems to have their backs. Like, that black guy who was shot because he told a cop that he had a concealed carry, and then followed the cop’s instructions: Did the NRA push for the cop’s prosecution? They also don’t fight as a rule if a white citizen is shot under questionable circumstances. But turn it into a class or race issue concerning basic ownership and all bets are off. A quick Google picks up [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/30/the-nras-struggle-to-prove-black-guns-matter-215084](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/30/the-nras-struggle-to-prove-black-guns-matter-215084) > **[Has the NRA ever helped a racial minority whose gun rights were being...](https://www.quora.com/Has-the-NRA-ever-helped-a-racial-minority-whose-gun-rights-were-being-infringed-upon)** > > Answer (1 of 16): Actually when one looks at the gun control measures fought against by the NRA, most are targeted at minorities to begin with. Now we can argue if the right to self defense and it’s effectiveness are valid. From the NRA’s belief and... There have been exceptions (California in the 60s and 70s where the NRA actually favored gun control targeting minorities) but from what I see, even within the liberal press, that was an aberration that crossed into a fear of not just blacks but hippies and the whole anti-war movement headed by a few individual officers and districts. By the first Bush administration they look to have rotated their world view by quite a few degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/109 "2019-01-11T16:26:52Z")
What does the NRA’s support or lack thereof for Black gun owners have anything to do with this? Is there some “blacks only” gun ban move I’m not aware of? The most (indirectly) pro-black gun move recently was Heller vs DC and that was not that long ago, and you can bet your ass the NRA had something to do with that. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/110 "2019-01-11T16:33:21Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Waco wasn’t on a national scale. If it was, you’d see shit that made Oklahoma City seem quaint. The problem with confiscation of 100M people with guns is not that it’d be _impossible_ to pull off, more like 1000 Wacos and subsequential retribution terror attacks (what they’d be classified at least) just isn’t worth it. Nobody wants to see that kind of blood bath. Are you saying that gun owners are potential terrorists? that if they do not get the results that they want through democratic means, they will resort to violence and “bloodbath” in order to enforce their will? In the OP’s scenario, at least 3/4ths of the states have gone along with this, and it is very popular. Defending an unpopular viewpoint with threats of violence is nothing but terrorism. If gun owners would be that violent because they disagree with the results of the democratic process, then they probably shouldn’t be trusted with guns in the first place. Is that really how you view your fellow gun owner? I had much more faith in the law abiding part of a law abiding gun owner, but here you are, insisting that they only will abide the laws they agree with, and violently resist the ones that they don’t. Is that really a good PR move for convincing us that guns are in the right hands? Personally, I do not think that the OP’s scenario would come to pass, if 2a were revoked, it would not be immediate gun ban and confiscation. We may be looking at some more restrictions on where and how you can carry, and some on what kinds of guns you can buy, but a total gun ban only exists in the most fervent dreams of the extreme, extreme anti-gun advocate, and in the irrational nightmares of a surprising number of pro-gun advocates. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/111 "2019-01-11T16:38:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In many ways, gun owners are to conservatives what pro-choicers are to liberals: People who consider a particular right to be cherished and fiercely defended, and fear that others want to eventually repeal their right (via judges, elections) to have. Although a woman’s uterus is arguably of greater direct physical importance to her than whether a gun owner has his Glock or not. The difference is is that liberals will not kill to protect pro-choice, conservative will kill due to their anti-choice position. Same as liberals will not kill in order to protect a anti-gun stance, but it is claimed right here that conservatives will kill to protect their guns. Any argument of “both-sideism” like the one you attempted there has to take into account that only one side is willing to kill if and when they don’t get their way at the ballot box. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/112 "2019-01-11T16:39:47Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > What does the NRA’s support or lack thereof for Black gun owners have anything to do with this? First read post number 50, my reply at post 84, and the reply to my reply at post 93. That puts the post (108?) you seem to question more in context. Ideas discussed over multiple pages can get like that sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/113 "2019-01-11T16:43:01Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > What does the NRA’s support or lack thereof for Black gun owners have anything to do with this? Is there some “blacks only” gun ban move I’m not aware of? The most (indirectly) pro-black gun move recently was Heller vs DC and that was not that long ago, and you can bet your ass the NRA had something to do with that. The point is that a confiscation of guns will not trigger any major uprising if it is done by targeting unpopular groups first. Certain unpopular religions, people from hated countries…NRA propaganda and spewings from various right wing sources tell us we need firearms to protect ourselves from “invasions” from people like them, so I don’t see any general uprising to defend the gun rights in those cases. The problem with depending on a violent uprising is that this kind of event needs a clearly defined and agreed upon trigger event for it to work. A line in the sand cannot work if everyone is drawing their own lines. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/114 "2019-01-11T17:15:59Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The difference is is that liberals will not kill to protect pro-choice, conservative will kill due to their anti-choice position. Same as liberals will not kill in order to protect a anti-gun stance, but it is claimed right here that conservatives will kill to protect their guns. > > Any argument of “both-sideism” like the one you attempted there has to take into account that only one side is willing to kill if and when they don’t get their way at the ballot box. That’s an awfully bold claim to make after James Hodgkinson tried to assassinate a bunch of Congressional Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/115 "2019-01-11T18:05:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The point is that a confiscation of guns will not trigger any major uprising if it is done by targeting unpopular groups first. Certain unpopular religions, people from hated countries…NRA propaganda and spewings from various right wing sources tell us we need firearms to protect ourselves from “invasions” from people like them, so I don’t see any general uprising to defend the gun rights in those cases. Maybe I don’t understand you. Are you thinking that the NRA won’t object if gun-banners start by banning guns for black people? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/116 "2019-01-11T18:06:18Z")
> [@Royal\_Nonesutch](#): > > Can you say specifically which “black guy” this is who you are referring to? Philando Castile is the most famous one. > [@Ashtura](#): > > What does the NRA’s support or lack thereof for Black gun owners have anything to do with this? Is there some “blacks only” gun ban move I’m not aware of? The most (indirectly) pro-black gun move recently was Heller vs DC and that was not that long ago, and you can bet your ass the NRA had something to do with that. Yeah, the NRA doesn’t as a rule “defend” every unjustifiable shooting. But their complete silence on this one was weird (except unofficial spokesman Colion Noir has lots of stuff to say). But I think it had less to do with race than NRA not wanting to piss off the Thin Blue Line. NRA did not have much to do with Heller, [more like inserting themselves in an unwanted way](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller#National_Rifle_Association_(NRA)). I think it’s funny when people say “the NRA” as if they are the only gun rights group. SAF and FPC and others are the ones actually changing the law. And I read lots of gun forum-type pages, some apolitical (which may lean conservative) and some that are explicitly “liberal.” NRA is not popular right now across a wide political spectrum, yet outside observers think that it’s some monolith. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/117 "2019-01-11T18:07:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I’ve always thought a lot of gun owners goalposted immediately on this. > > “The Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms - therefore we have a legal right to own guns, the law must be upheld and respected” Ironically, if I was a Supreme Court Justice, I’d probably get a favorable rating from the NRA. While I don’t agree with the Second Amendment, I recognize that it exists and unrestricted gun ownership is a constitutional right. I would rule against most gun control laws on that basis. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/118 "2019-01-11T18:24:20Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Suppose against all odds the 2nd Amendment is repealed and laws are passed and the government goes knocking door-to-door to confiscate all privately owned guns. What is the feared result exactly? > > Is is that gun owners would lack self defense, or financial loss (guns are expensive and maybe Uncle Sam wouldn’t compensate enough,) or that there would be no way to resist governmental tyranny? > > No snarkiness intended at all - just want to understand. I don’t own guns and probably never will, but want to understand what the main worry is exactly. A primary worry is the incredible, self-imposed, ignorance of the anti-2nd/anti-inanimate-object haters who repeatedly ask the same questions in spite of having heard the answers before. Choosing to ignore the answers doesn’t mean the answers will change, or are invalid. No snarkiness intended at all, but are you demanding that government agents invade your home, announced or unannounced, with or without a warrant, in order to search your home for now-illegal-to-own-firearms? All it would take for that to happen is for one, or more, of your neighbors, friends, co-workers, or family to anonymously notify those government agencies that you have firearms in your house. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/119 "2019-01-11T18:42:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s an awfully bold claim to make after James Hodgkinson tried to assassinate a bunch of Congressional Republicans. I completely and unreservedly condemn his actions, as do pretty much all liberals. Do you condemn without reservation the actions of, say, Timothy McVeigh? And it is the gun advocates in this very thread who are stating as a plain fact that the gun owners will rebel against the govt if democracy doesn’t go their way. That is the argument that is made by the people on your side. If you don’t agree with them, argue with them, don’t try to play your hypocrisy gotcha games in order to distract from the argument that is being made by your side, right now, that they will not respect the law, and will commit to violence if they do not get their way. And these threats are not even against political leaders who would make these decisions, but against people just doing their job in enforcing the laws that were voted upon by the a super majority of your fellow citizens. Your tu quoque failed, hard. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2019, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510/120 "2019-01-11T18:46:39Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > I completely and unreservedly condemn his actions, as do pretty much all liberals. Do you condemn without reservation the actions of, say, Timothy McVeigh? > > And it is the gun advocates in this very thread who are stating as a plain fact that the gun owners will rebel against the govt if democracy doesn’t go their way. That is the argument that is made by the people on your side. > > If you don’t agree with them, argue with them, don’t try to play your hypocrisy gotcha games in order to distract from the argument that is being made by your side, right now, that they will not respect the law, and will commit to violence if they do not get their way. > > And these threats are not even against political leaders who would make these decisions, but against people just doing their job in enforcing the laws that were voted upon by the a super majority of your fellow citizens. > > Your tu quoque failed, hard. I didn’t ask if you condemned him or not. You made a claim. Specifically, you said, “only one side is willing to kill if and when they don’t get their way at the ballot box.” That claim is false. James Hodgkinson is an example from your side that was “willing to kill” when he didn’t get his way at the ballot box. Do you now recognize that your claim is false? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confiscation-of-guns-what-do-gun-owners-fear-exactly/827510.md?page=7)