Glocks do not have manual hammers which may be cocked or uncocked. The hammer is internal. Further, Glocks contain a trigger safety in that a round will not discharge unless your finger or some other object depresses against the trigger.
There is simply no way a Glock will discharge if you are doing back flips.
That’s true. Glock also have a firing pin block and only by squeezing the trigger will it release it.
You don’t seem to remember the incident very well at all.
Welcome to the Dope. Nobody has offered a single word about #410, in which I laid out my views on the matter of guns. Everybody is eager to point out that vicious was misspelled . (BTW, that’s not illiteracy — I won the spelling bee 60 years ago — it’s a type of aphasia.)
And heaven forbid that I should have an opinion on America’s obsession with guns if I use the word ‘uncock’ to refer to removing a chambered round. Obviously nobody would dare post in a Superbowl thread unless they know that the football is 14.5 ounces, inflated to 13 psi with a Patented 3-ply VPU rubber bladder inside the leather panels. Yet here I am; I couldn’t name a single hollow-point bullet brand recommended for the Glock, yet have the audacity to wonder if some of the cowboys in FlyoverLand might be as dingbat as an FBI agent.
No hard feelings though. You guys are as lovable as the Three Stooges!
I’m thinking the Lakers are definitely going to win the Super Bowl this year. I hear they’ve got a great starting pitcher!
Then you’ve been here long enough to recognize pedantic jokes, not at your expense.
It should come as no great surprise to anyone that he’s confused about the facts.
Moderator Note
Attack the post, not the poster. If you want to attack the poster, take it to the Pit.
I think the biggest issue here is that the VAST majority of gun owners are law-abiding, peaceable people. Some are shooting sports enthusiasts, some are (IMO) paranoids who see lurking criminals around every corner and behind every bush, some are political weirdos, and some just like collecting the things and shooting them occasionally. Most are white, and either suburban or rural.
But when you look at gun deaths, you see two things- the majority are suicides, and of the gun deaths that remain, a disproportionate number happen among the black community and/or within urban areas.
I imagine (trying to put myself in their shoes) when you’re a white gun owner who likes shooting skeet and you feel safer in your semi-rural house having a loaded pistol handy, it seems really perplexing and kind of offensive when some do-gooder type starts nattering about gun control and asking “why do you NEED a gun?” and quoting statistics that don’t even concern your situation one bit. From your perspective, those gun deaths are something that happen in another world, to a group that you have little contact with, and you wonder why these do-gooders are trying to take something away from you, when it seems clear that the answer is to have that other world shape up, instead of trying to take from you.
I imagine it seems very much like in elementary school when 24 out of 26 kids can handle having glue in their school boxes, but because the same two dipshit kids who *always *get in trouble can’t handle it, everyone has to give up their glue. Yes, it keeps the desks and carpets from getting glued up, but if you’re one of that 24 out of 25, it sure seems unfair that everyone else has to give up the glue just because the two discipline problem kids can’t control themselves.
(not even mentioning the kids who feel strongly that glue is a constitutional right, or who feel that they MUST have glue to be successful in their studies)
The issue is not your personal lack of knowledge about guns. Nobody here knows everything about all topics, and even on topics that we debate we do not have perfect knowledge. My objection is not that you used the term uncock when you meant empty the chamber.
My issue is that you believed that a trained FBI agent had an accidental discharge because he carried a Glock with a chambered round, and if a professional could have an accident, then surely Billy Bob after his seventh Budweiser could do that and worse.
But that is just not the case. A Glock, nor any other modern handgun will discharge because there is one in the chamber. That was a feature of the first old cowboy revolvers back in the late 1800s where the firing pin rested right against the primer of a chambered round.
I don’t know what caused the FBI Agent’s gun to discharge, but it definitively was not because of a bump on the gun and having a round chambered. That is certainly not what happened. And when you use that a reason why I shouldn’t be able to carry a gun, then we are going to call you on it, not to be insulting, but because you have made a serious factual error that affects the debate and needs to be corrected.
Here’s what worked in Scotland (which had few guns but was the most violent developed nation some little time ago)
The VRU’s strategy is described as a “public health” approach to preventing violence. This suggests that beyond the obvious health problems resulting from violence – the physical injuries and psychological trauma – the violent behaviour itself is an epidemic that spreads from person to person. One of the primary indicators that someone will carry out an act of violence is first being the victim of one. The idea that violence spreads between people, reproducing itself and shifting group norms, explains why one locality might see more stabbings or shootings than another area with many of the same social problems.
Oh, I think we can all agree that the fundamental cause was that he was a fucking irresponsible idiot, whatever the specifics. And that was a trained, disciplined LEO with no excuse not to know better.
The reason is that we don’t know that you’re not a fucking irresponsible idiot either, or at least not susceptible to a moment’s bad luck or inadvertence. You may like to think you’re not, but, well, how do *you *know either? Such people are in the news virtually daily - what makes *anyone *sure you’ll never be one?
Ah, I see you’re playing the "nobody is a _____ until he is a _____ " card. One of your favorites. I’ll ask you again, just like I’ve asked you so many times when you’ve played it in the past…How can we trust that you aren’t a rapist or a child molester just because, as far as we know, you haven’t raped anyone or molested any children yet? Shouldn’t we start restricting your contact with children and chemically castrate you now?
I actually agree with this 99%. The 1% I disagree with is your capitalization of ‘VAST.’ It’s possible to be a law-abiding gun owner and still be a nut-case. The movie-goer who shot the other movie-goer because his popcorn eating was too loud was law-abiding until then. (Maybe he still is “law-abiding” if the popcorn penalty was judged to be “standing his ground.”)
And do not be so quick to wave gun suicides away:
Alaska has the highest rate of gun ownership of U.S. states and has the 2nd-highest rate of suicides. Wyoming is 5th highest in gun ownership and 3rd highest in suicides. Idaho is 3rd and 7th. (I’d crunch the numbers but the site I found for gun ownership rates is one of those stupid sites where the 51* states are shown on 51 separate pages.)
Why? Why do states with high gun ownership have high suicide rates? What I’ve read is: Most suicide attempts are episodic; a failed attempt may not be repeated. If a gun is available, the gun may be the suicide tool of choice. Suicide attempts with a gun are more likely to succeed than non-gun attempts.
Therefore it is disingenuous for gun nuts to ignore gun suicide deaths.
I do remember why FBI agent’s Glock went off. (I didn’t focus on this memory before because the details seemed irrelevant.) During his back-flips the gun fell to the floor. (For LEO’s gun to fall to the floor already seems … sub-optimal, but let’s move on.) When he picked up the gun, his finger contacted the trigger. (I’m sure all you gun experts know this was also … inappropriate!) Was he drunk? Either way, the accidental discharge was … sub-optimal.
Google can find you scores of such stories. Six-year old kills three-year old sister. Cop shoots at daughter in the dark thinking she was intruder; on and on. The Glock incident is memorable because the perp was a frigging FBI agent!
But, in case you think you were addressing me, I was NOT offering any reason why you “shouldn’t be able to carry a gun.” Quite to the contrary, I’ve lamented that Kamala Harris, along with others we’re hoping will rescue us from Trumpists and their fellow travelers, are hoisting their own petards with their stern anti-gun stances.
So … If I’m “neutral” on this issue, more-or-less opposed to BOTH guns AND gun control, why do I post? Because the mentality presented by SOME gun nuts absolutely astounds me. My OCD compels me to call out nonsense.
Insipid prattle about “natural rights” complete with the implication that someone who doesn’t understand that owning an AR-15 is a “natural right” probably has no sense of right or wrong and wonders whether “killing browns” is good or evil. :eek: :eek: :eek: No … I didn’t pull that from an InfoChannel YouTube or the FoxNews comments; that was right here, in this thread!
Hobbyists. Suppose hypothetically that bass fish were discovered to have some dangerous prion, and bass tournament aficionados were asked to switch to some other fish species. Sure there’d be grumbling and requests for scientists to double-check. But would they be donating $1000s to the NRA, babbling about the Divine or “Natural” Right to fish for bass, refusing to ever consider splitting their party vote again? Nope, it’s just “gun hobbyists,” bless their little all-American hearts, who elevate their hobby to a religion.
I’ve thought of having a gun in my home to defend my family and, IIUC, a stay-at-home gun permit is easier to get where I live than a take-me-everywhere gun permit. But in America some take their gun everywhere. Do they also carry their fire extinguisher with them everywhere? Is it fun to live in a society where you feel you need that gun? For that matter, how do you think “normal” people feel, knowing we’re surrounded by people carrying guns out of fear?
Still vast, considering that 99.99repeating don’t do any damage to humans. I respect your post, truly.
Many people don’t, and shouldn’t. Suicide is high in some parts of the country, and shouldn’t be. The problem is of access to mental health resources. Guns do add a finality to it, and potentially some people kill themselves with more lethal options whereas the may survive through other methods. But do consider that the US as a whole is lower than the gun-free paradises of Japan or Belgium, and considerably lower than Russia, South Korea, and other smaller countries.
Agreed. I hope that she never gets to higher office. And I hope we don’t get another 4 years of Trump. But the Democratic party wants someone to hold their beer. We need out of this deadlock, then economic and health improvement.
Yes, some people are nuts. But man bites dog phenomenon. I’m not sure you’re neutral, or at least more vocal about neutrality than others.
Bass fishermen are a special breed of nutty. Part of what they do is because bass are prolific and easy to abuse.
I spend time on gun forums. Some very left wing, some nonpolitical but de facto right wing. The NRA is currently not popular in both segments for the same reason. They are not good representatives of gun rights, and in both cases not “extreme” enough.
I’ve never shot anyone. I have 2 fire extinguishers in my car. I have never used one in my home, but there was one situation where I tried to and couldn’t due to lack of preparation/training and it still bothers me. Went with water and suffocating and it turned out okay but I realize that I need to practice skills. I hope to never kill anyone but I will try to be there for my family.
I snipped this because the rest of what you said has been well addressed in other areas of the thread, but I just cannot let this one go.
First and foremost, we do not restrict people’s freedoms in this country because of an irrational fear by people when the first person is not doing anything to stoke that fear. Yes, if I am waiving a gun around in a public place, then you have a rational reason to fear. If I am carrying a gun holstered or concealed, then I am doing absolutely nothing to put you in fear. Nothing at all. So why should public policy indulge that fear? What other irrational fears should be indulged.
Second, you mischaracterize the “fear” that you attribute to those carrying guns. It’s not as if we are in public with beads of sweat glistening off of our foreheads because we are afraid we will be attacked. When you wear your seatbelt, are you in desperate terror that at any second you could be in a car accident? It is the same thing; a proactive method to protect yourself just in case.
Finally, your fear has been argued and debunked, at least since 1987 when Florida was debating shall-issue concealed carry. These same arguments were made that gun nuts would be packing pistols everywhere and it would be the wild west all over again with people getting in shoot outs over traffic accidents and in grocery stores when someone brings 11 items into the express lane there will be ten guns pointed at them with blood running down the aisle. It never remotely came to pass.
Even in West Virginia, of all places, when in 2016 we eliminated the need for a carry permit at all, so long as you can legally possess a gun, you can legally carry it openly or concealed, we heard the same thing from 100% NRA rated politicians. That there would be untrained people carrying guns shooting each other over minor transgressions. Again, it never came to pass.
So what is the rational basis for this fear of someone else around you carrying a gun? What evidence supports it other than some emotional pleading?
Sure, but we still let them drive cars, fly planes, etc. All of which can kill plenty of people.
We don’t just “let” people do any of those things, now do we? Tell us what it takes, and then we can agree that guns should require at least the same, okay?
I dont. Suicide is a tragedy, but also, IMHO a Right.
But if you look at the List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia
You will see than many nations with high suicide rates have few guns- such as Japan. So guns dont cause suicide. But yes, they make it easier. More mental health coverage would help here.
You’re so very wrong on hobbyists- look at street racing hobbyists, or even yes- fishing enthusiasts who will take illegal fish, fish that are a bane to the environment, and seed lakes and rivers with them.
I dont carry my gun anywhere, but each car has a fire extinguisher.
Is that what you would tell the guy who got shot by Dancing FBI Fuckwad?
Fear of getting killed is not irrational. It’s psychologically normal. For that matter, so are rationalization and denial, however.
Are you under the impression that there was never any illegal carrying going on before that? If the rate at which people, with all their human failings, are actually carrying, legal or not, hasn’t changed, then the rate of their use shouldn’t be expected to. You really ought to be aware of how little the permit requirement ever actually meant in reality - effectively nothing.