# Confronting racism in oneself **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 19, 2026, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215 "2026-05-19T17:58:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Calder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e99b99/32.png) [@Calder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Calder)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/61 "2026-05-19T21:26:49Z")
Shrug, part of the issue, I think, is that the definition of the word racism has expanded so much over time. Don’t get me wrong, it is correct and right that we as a society have gotten better at identifying the harm racism has caused. However, when we use the same word to identify the actions of the KKK or Adolf Hitler as someone who unconsciously used a microaggression, the word starts to lose any meaning when talking to the public at large, particularly when all of the emotional weight of the word is on the Hitler side. Just from a marketing perspective, I think you will have a lot more success at getting society in general to change if a microaggression were described as prejudiced instead of racist. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/62 "2026-05-19T21:29:46Z")
As far as I know I am not racist..but a blanket statement from those that don’t know me of “Yes, you are!” does absolutely nothing to help me. I cannot correct actions, thoughts or beliefs unless and until they are actively pointed out to me. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/63 "2026-05-19T21:34:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > a blanket statement from those that don’t know me of “Yes, you are!” does absolutely nothing to help me. What did I say about that? I said don’t use the copula: don’t say “You are” X. I started this thread to get away from that hangup. There are a lot of stick-in-the-muds clinging to it. All the more reason for me to argue as I did. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/64 "2026-05-19T22:30:15Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > > [@Pleonast](#): > > > > There are no nonracist societies. It’s impossible for humans to avoid absorbing racism. > > I agree with the first sentence (at least for purposes of this discussion). I’m not sure the second follows. Why would it be impossible? Because humans are innately social creatures that change their thoughts and behaviors based on the others around them. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/65 "2026-05-19T22:32:06Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I argue the position of Doper 1 against Doper 2, but without saying “you’re racist,” because the copula is a scary thing in the mind. It cuts to the heart of one’s self-esteem and social reputation and hits the amygdala as a vicious attack on the very person. I think many posters have not actually understood this paragraph. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/66 "2026-05-19T23:18:48Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > > [@Procrustus](#): > > > > I agree with the first sentence (at least for purposes of this discussion). I’m not sure the second follows. Why would it be impossible? > > Because humans are innately social creatures that change their thoughts and behaviors based on the others around them. Maybe were just arguing over language. But are you saying what is likely, or what is inescapable? We all (most of us) grew up in similar circumstances, as far as the racist culture is concerned. There is a wide variety of attitudes about race, however. Some people are quite racist and some are even proud of it. Others undoubtably have some conscious or subconscious prejudices they need to recognize the be alert to as they go through their daily lives. But I’m also willing to accept that some people have managed to “avoid absorbing racism.” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/67 "2026-05-19T23:50:30Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > That’s exactly the point @Johanna is making: that we each need to be self aware enough to recognize any prejudices we have before they impact others. Respectfully, no it is not the same point. And it comes to this as well: > [@Johanna](#): > > Social psychologists test that all the time, it’s their bread and butter Nope. They test for _behaviors_ that are consistent with biases. The difference between behaviors and thoughts is not some pedantic nit. Behaviors are often conditioned responses more than the result of “thoughts” or even “beliefs.” The idea that we should be on guard for the “loathsome vermin” of a racist thought that “slips into awareness unbidden” is IMO completely missing the boat. The behaviors that are the result of thoughts slipping into awareness that I can identify as racist if only I stay vigilant? Low hanging fruit. With the caveat of course that few will recognize any of their thoughts as being that, but still. The behaviors that bypass any thought process at all, that are in direct opposition to what our thoughts say we think, even at the moment, those are the ones we need to really work to recognize and to alter. So use medical care as an example. Asking doctors to be vigilant to self-identify vermin racist thoughts so such do not cause inequities in medical care? Nah. There are no thoughts they are going to be able to be aware of that are making them more likely to prescribe or not prescribe X when the patient has one identity vs another, or other different plans. They are however capable of becoming self-aware of the behaviors and catch themselves doing it. Still hard to do but less impossible. It doesn’t require having, let alone recognizing and exterminating, racist thoughts to do that. @Czarcasm I am curious - you, as far as you know are not racist. Do you believe that you have no actions that have varied with the group identity of the other person involved, even in ways that seem very subtle to you? I mean I can’t prove that you have, but the data that pretty much everyone does is pretty solid. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2026, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/68 "2026-05-19T23:51:16Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > If someone is only, say, 23% racist instead of 100%, Doper 1 argues, you mustn’t compare them to the evil Klansman as though it’s all or nothing. The problem with this: It implies there is an acceptable level of racism one may hold. There is no acceptable level of racism that a person may nurture in their soul. It _all_ has to be rooted out, and it’s everyone’s individual and collective responsibility to keep doing so. this isn’t realistic though. Prejudice is built into our biology. We evolved in cooperative tribes and we are never going to get rid of tribalistic urges. Racism is a form of tribalism but so are religious divisions, nationalism, ethnocentrism and endless other -isms. We divide ourselves into ‘those who are in my group and are useful to my survival’ and ‘those who are outside my group who are irrelevant to my survival at best, or direct competition at worst’. Not only that, but misogyny is built deep into our biology too. Women’s reproductive systems are more valuable than mens, so men want (to one degree or another) to keep women dependent so men can control their reproductive systems. The same way that controlling livestock and crops is better than being a hunter/gatherer. You take away the independence of something valuable so you can take what you want from it. Its not moral, but sadly its built deep into us and we have to fight to overcome it. There is no utopian end goal where prejudice disappears. Humans need social cohesion like it or not so we find social identities to build ourselves around so we can divide ourselves into us vs them. Also prejudice expands far beyond anti-black racism. In the black community there is anti-korean and anti-Jewish bigotry as well as misogyny, homophobia, etc. IMO, what could help is teaching people the history of anti-black racism. The fact that it was engineered by wealthy aristocrats in the 17th century to prevent multi-racial coalitions from overthrowing the rich. When white people feel they are superior to black people, they will refuse to unite with them based on class. This has been intentionally engineered into US society for centuries to allow the plutocrats to keep the working class divided and easier to exploit. Getting rid of racism is like getting rid of nationalism. You can shame people for having it, but it doesnt make it go away. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/69 "2026-05-20T00:07:41Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > @Czarcasm I am curious - you, as far as you know are not racist. Do you believe that you have no actions that have varied with the group identity of the other person involved, even in ways that seem very subtle to you? I mean I can’t prove that you have, but the data that pretty much everyone does is pretty solid. I’ve sometimes wondered what would happen if someone started a thread entitled “I’m A Racist - Ask Me Anything” but then kept giving completely unobjectionable answers to every question put to them — until they helpfully relay that, _well, look, everyone is racist, right?_ ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/70 "2026-05-20T00:38:24Z")
Sorry to be so wordy but continuing to respond to @Pleonast - @Johanna explicitly is not focused on the behaviors. The bit @Wesley_Clark quoted refreshes: she is interested in our impure souls. > [@Johanna](#): > > There is no acceptable level of racism that a person may nurture in their soul. It _all_ has to be rooted out, @WalterBishop noted that her post reads more like dogma than argument, and yes, this approach that she promotes as less antagonistic than the cupola of “you are …” comes off to me more like born again witnessing. I don’t believe in aspiring to a pure soul in any sense. I accept our nature is complicated and conflicted, be it thought of as a soul, or The Force in balance with The Dark Side, or various evolutionary imperatives. So hands off my soul please. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/71 "2026-05-20T00:39:43Z")
Another issue is that telling people that they _must_ at all costs avoid thinking a thought, tends to cause people to think it more, not less. Teach people that thinking about sex is evil, then they’ll think a lot more about sex that they would otherwise. Teach people that they should be hyper-vigilant about racist thoughts, and they’ll probably be thinking racist thoughts obsessively. Actions we can control, but we’re just not built to be able to will away Bad Thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/72 "2026-05-20T00:48:06Z")
ETA: This somehow posted as a reply to @DSeid. It was meant as a reply to the thread in general. But I’ll make an aside that I greatly respect and substantially agree w all @DSeid’s thoughts so far. Everyone has a pet issue. @Johanna has bravely shared hers. In utterly impossibly uncompromising terms. That’s nice. There are another hundred roughly equally pernicious _isms_ out there. Some have already been enumerated by other posters. IMO … We can subsume all of them under the rubric of Us vs Them. If your mind contains a notion that there _is_ any Them, your mind is unclean. Hell, if you mind _could_ contain a notion that there _is_ any Them, your mind is unclean. It is only when every human is exactly as important in every way to you yourself, _and_ any non-compliant thoughts are truly unthinkable, that you will achieve this mythical clean state. Are your kids or spouse more important to you than some rando in some city in China whose identity you don’t know? Sorry, you’re engaging in unacceptable us/themism. The only acceptable standard is absolutely positively _zero_ of that. Right after we become Vulcan we’ll get to work on this one. Meanwhile it’s irrelevant unachievable bunk. A goal that 100% of participants will _grossly_ fail at isn’t a goal. It’s a wall against which to bloody your head briefly before giving up and going back to business as usual. The idea that each human _ought_, among a hundred other self-improvement projects, also strive to _reduce_ us/themism is a fine notion. Lay off the absolutes; they get you / me / us (/ them 🙂 ) nowhere. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/73 "2026-05-20T01:17:45Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > @Johanna explicitly is not focused on the behaviors. The bit @Wesley_Clark quoted refreshes: she is interested in our impure souls. > > > [@Johanna](#): > > > > There is no acceptable level of racism that a person may nurture in their soul. It _all_ has to be rooted out, > > @WalterBishop noted that her post reads more like dogma than argument, and yes, this approach that she promotes as less antagonistic than the cupola of “you are …” comes off to me more like born again witnessing. Mine interpretation is that @Johanna is being figurative here, and not making a literal argument about souls. It’s an aspiration to improve oneself. I think aspiring to counter one’s own unconscious biases is a worthy goal. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/74 "2026-05-20T01:22:23Z")
It is an asperation to be totally non-racist. But is there a universally acceptable definition of “racism”? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/75 "2026-05-20T01:30:57Z")
Probably not, but a person doesn’t need a universal definition to aspire to something–only their own. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/76 "2026-05-20T01:39:02Z")
Well, in that case I am totally non-racist, but even I can see the problem with that definition in that is too easily self-serving. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/77 "2026-05-20T01:40:01Z")
Then choose a better definition. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/78 "2026-05-20T01:42:26Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > We evolved in cooperative tribes and we are never going to get rid of tribalistic urges. Racism is a form of tribalism Wrong. There was no racism in the ancient world. It was invented in the 15th century by Prince Henry and Eanes de Zarura to justify enslaving Africans. It was imposed on America by force of law by the Virginia legislature’s Slave Codes in 1705. It is not natural. It is man-made. Your crude pop-Evo Psych is outdated and exploded anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/79 "2026-05-20T01:42:39Z")
If a racist is allowed to choose a definition of racism, one they think is better, well… you can see where that is going to end up. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2026, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215/80 "2026-05-20T01:49:23Z")
It did not emerge out of a peaceful vacuum. What we had before, the tribalism, the nationalism etc. allowed groups to see each other as deadly rivals that must be destroyed…and sometimes even as non-human. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confronting-racism-in-oneself/1030215.md?page=5)