# Confused about transgender bathroom issues **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901 "2016-04-23T14:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/61 "2016-05-18T22:27:02Z")
> [@Emiliana](#): > > I’ve never been in a women’s locker room with an open shower area. Never seen any neighboring penises or vaginas. > > Some men really don’t get women’s restrooms and locker rooms. We just don’t do the genitalia on parade thing. Well, men sure do… ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/62 "2016-05-18T23:53:58Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Well, men sure do… Have you been in a men’s locker room recently? Have you been in a men’s locker room that has many guys under 30? Genitals on parade is far less common than it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/63 "2016-05-19T00:13:03Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Seems great! “Mommy, there is a man in the shower!” > > “Stop staring at genitals, you are a rude, rude person!” > > right…:smack: At the grocery store last weekend, my three-year-old started talking with some random dude. “YOU’RE JUST LIKE MY DADDY!” she shouted. “YOU ARE WEARING A GREEN SHIRT JUST LIKE HIM!” The man grinned, chatted for a minute, then walked away to continue shopping. “BUT YOU’RE REALLY FAT, AND MY DADDY IS NOT!” my three year old yelled after him. Yeah, I shushed her. Kids are gonna notice physical differences, but sometimes it violates social norms to holler about those physical differences. Were I in a restroom with my hypothetical son, and a trans man came in, I’d similarly hush my son if he started shouting about the physical differences between that man and me. What else is new? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/64 "2016-05-19T00:34:46Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Well, men sure do… No they don’t. I can’t remember the last time I saw a penis in the mens locker room. Now, perhaps if one were _interested_ in seeing penises, one could spot the occasional wanker. But you’d have to be looking for it, which would make **you** the skeevy one. (General “you”) ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/65 "2016-05-19T00:43:40Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Have you been in a men’s locker room recently? Have you been in a men’s locker room that has many guys under 30? > > Genitals on parade is far less common than it used to be. Not in my gym. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/66 "2016-05-19T00:47:48Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Seems great! “Mommy, there is a man in the shower!” > > “Stop staring at genitals, you are a rude, rude person!” > > right…:smack: Right, the bigger problem there is the kid’'s deliberate misgendering of someone, which is really nasty and rude behavior. The mommy should explain to the kid what a trans woman is, and that it’s rude both to stare at her genitals and to call her a man. Spending ten minutes respectfully explaining a situation in terms a kid can understand is apparently too much effort, but spending a much larger effort passing a law to move a girl into the boy’s showers is a completely reasonable thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/67 "2016-05-19T00:58:28Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Right, the bigger problem there is the kid’'s deliberate misgendering of someone Hold up, deliberate? That’s not something most kids I’ve met would do. I’ve talked about trans issues with third graders (on a very basic level, as part of the discussion of why the DOJ is suing our state–my kids stay current on news!), and after a brief explanation of what transgender means, my students all shrugged and accepted it. I mean, maybe some of them were like, “Yesterday Mr. Dorkness was talking about Syrian refugees, today he’s talking about House Bill Two, I have no fuckin idea what any of this is,” but nobody freaked out or deliberately misgendered someone. Kids don’t know almost anything. That’s cool, they’re kids, it’s our job to teach them. If a kid says, “Mommy, there’s a man in the shower!” it’s likely to be an honest mistake, requiring some education. ---
**Author:** ![spamforbrains](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@spamforbrains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spamforbrains)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/68 "2016-05-19T02:33:58Z")
> [@](#): > > The question is simple - Do you consider a woman bigoted if she doesn’t want anyone with a penis in the shower with her, regardless of the gender or biological sex of the person with a penis? Is there something wrong with a woman not wanting anyone with a penis in the shower with her? I’d be more uncomfortable with a lesbian than with a transgender in the showers. Not that it matters because women’s showers are in cubicles and no one sees anything. The college I went to, the dorms all had unisex bathrooms. With cubicle showers, stalls, and even urinals. No one had any problem whatsoever showering next to someone with any form of genitalia or sexual orientation. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/69 "2016-05-19T03:37:02Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Not in my gym. Nor mine. The showers are individual cubes, but the dressing room is open for all the men to see what everybody has. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/70 "2016-05-19T05:39:28Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Nor mine. The showers are individual cubes, but the dressing room is open for all the men to see what everybody has. Most men, IME, will wrap towels around their waists in lieu of being totally nude. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/71 "2016-05-19T10:29:41Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Have you been in a men’s locker room recently? Have you been in a men’s locker room that has many guys under 30? > > Genitals on parade is far less common than it used to be. > [@Ethilrist](#): > > Not in my gym. Sure, but you’re paying a premium for that feature. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/72 "2016-05-19T16:16:59Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Right, the bigger problem there is the kid’'s deliberate misgendering of someone, which is really nasty and rude behavior. Really? You can tell what gender someone is simply by looking at them? Please explain how you do that. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/73 "2016-05-19T16:18:26Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Were I in a restroom with my hypothetical son, and a trans man came in, I’d similarly hush my son if he started shouting about the physical differences between that man and me. What else is new? How would you know it was a transgender man? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/74 "2016-05-19T16:20:16Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > I’m actually more uncomfortable showering with a cisgender lesbian than a straight transgender woman, because there could be some attraction or ulterior motive which becomes apparent in the former case (been there, done that too…) I thought being uncomfortable with showering with a gay person was bigoted? ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/75 "2016-05-19T16:33:18Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I thought being uncomfortable with showering with a gay person was bigoted? What exactly is your problem? You seem hellbent on proving some point, but I am not quite what it is. Why don’t you just spell it out? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/76 "2016-05-19T16:48:16Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > What exactly is your problem? You seem hellbent on proving some point, but I am not quite what it is. Why don’t you just spell it out? I don’t have any problems. I just find it surprising that a known champion for transgender rights would feel uncomfortable showering with a gender-typical lesbian. Especially in light of all the calls of “Bigotry!” when someone confesses they feel uncomfortable showering with a transgender woman. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/77 "2016-05-19T16:55:58Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Right, the bigger problem there is the kid’'s deliberate misgendering of someone, which is really nasty and rude behavior. The mommy should explain to the kid what a trans woman is, and that it’s rude both to stare at her genitals and to call her a man. Spending ten minutes respectfully explaining a situation in terms a kid can understand is apparently too much effort, but spending a much larger effort passing a law to move a girl into the boy’s showers is a completely reasonable thing to do. I agree with you in general but the part about rude misgendering really depends on the age of the kid. My nieces insisted that I was a man for awhile when small because I had a really short hair cut. I guess you could call that deliberately misgendering me–they did insist!–but it was just part of the process through which little kids make sense of the world. In their world, men had short hair and women had longer hair, and they were simply trying to make sense of what appeared to be an aberrant data point. Sure, you can point out that kids of all ages should keep quiet when it comes to their views of the appearance of others (e.g. the poor guy in Left Hand of Dorkness’s post), but that’s not specific to gender identity. On your other point, I don’t think a whole lot of time or thought went into passing that clusterfuck of a law. It’s much harder to be quietly hateful than it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/78 "2016-05-19T17:18:43Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I thought being uncomfortable with showering with a gay person was bigoted? What I meant was obvious from a hypothetical “relative” sense. Don’t _even_ try to play “gotcha ya” with me on LGBT rights. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/79 "2016-05-19T17:23:56Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I don’t have any problems. Oh, really? > [@](#): > > I just find it surprising that a known champion for transgender rights would feel uncomfortable showering with a gender-typical lesbian. Especially in light of all the calls of “Bigotry!” when someone confesses they feel uncomfortable showering with a transgender woman. I cast it in terms of relative comfort. “More uncomfortable” does not mean “uncomfortable, period.” My point was emphasizing that I treat transgender women as women, and if there were to be any “discomfort” it would be showering with someone - regardless of gender - who there might be a mutual attraction with. Because part of the relative discomfort might be ME attracted to HER. Again, you suck at playing “gotcha ya.” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/80 "2016-05-19T17:32:08Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > What I meant was obvious from a hypothetical “relative” sense. Don’t _even_ try to play “gotcha ya” with me on LGBT rights. Hypothetical “relative” sense? You posted that one makes you more uncomfortable than the other. How is that hypothetical? If I posted “Showering with a gay guy makes me more uncomfortable than a straight guy” you would similarly see the hypothetical “relativeness” of that statement? And sure, I won’t _ **even** _ play “gotcha ya” :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901.md?page=5)