# Confused about transgender bathroom issues **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 23, 2016, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901 "2016-04-23T14:36:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/81 "2016-05-19T17:35:45Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Oh, really? > > I cast it in terms of relative comfort. “More uncomfortable” does not mean “uncomfortable, period.” My point was emphasizing that I treat transgender women as women, and if there were to be any “discomfort” it would be showering with someone - regardless of gender - who there might be a mutual attraction with. Because part of the relative discomfort might be ME attracted to HER. > > Again, you suck at playing “gotcha ya.” Again, I’m not playing “gotcha ya” at all. Why would there be any discomfort? You should be as perfectly comfortable showering with a gay person as showering with a straight person. Just like you should be as perfectly comfortable showering with a transgender person as showering with a gender-typical person. Any deviation in comfort between the two is simply a manifestation of your own bigotry, something that you need to work on yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/82 "2016-05-19T17:44:54Z")
You seem to be playing “gotcha” with someone in nearly all of your posts. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/83 "2016-05-19T18:09:06Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > You seem to be playing “gotcha” with someone in nearly all of your posts. Maybe you are unable or unwilling to clearly state your views on the subject, and your deliberate obfuscation of what you really think leads you to believe others who CAN clearly state their opinions on the matter are merely playing “gotcha ya” ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/84 "2016-05-19T18:13:40Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Maybe you are unable or unwilling to clearly state your views on the subject, and your deliberate obfuscation of what you really think leads you to believe others who CAN clearly state their opinions on the matter are merely playing “gotcha ya” My view is simple. Transgender people should use the bathrooms/locker rooms of the sex they identify. The problem that I see is that the Republicans/conservatives do not see the difference between transgenderism and transvestism. A transgender girl is a girl. A guy in a dress is a transvestite. He is still a guy. If some high school guy puts on a dress and tries to go into the girl’s areas, then he should be dealt with. He is a guy. I have no idea what your view is or what you are trying to accomplish in your posts. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/85 "2016-05-19T18:13:54Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Maybe you are unable or unwilling to clearly state your views on the subject, and your deliberate obfuscation of what you really think leads you to believe others who CAN clearly state their opinions on the matter are merely playing “gotcha ya” Gotchur nose!! ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/86 "2016-05-19T19:01:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Really? You can tell what gender someone is simply by looking at them? Please explain how you do that. Really? You just invented that out of whole cloth from a quote that says nothing of the sort? Please explain why you do that. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/87 "2016-05-19T19:20:46Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > My view is simple. Transgender people should use the bathrooms/locker rooms of the sex they identify. Don’t you know that sex and gender are two different things? You should probably read up on a topic before tossing your opinions around. aHA! Gotcha ya! :rolleyes: my view is I don’t care who uses what bathroom. Or showers for that matter. But, I’m not in a position to say that woman is wrong, bigoted, or ignorant if she doesn’t want to shower with a person with a penis, regardless of gender or orientation. And there doesn’t seem to be a good answer for that. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/88 "2016-05-19T19:25:35Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > Really? You just invented that out of whole cloth from a quote that says nothing of the sort? Please explain why you do that. Perhaps you should read it again. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/89 "2016-05-19T19:33:35Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Don’t you know that sex and gender are two different things? You should probably read up on a topic before tossing your opinions around. > > aHA! Gotcha ya! :rolleyes: > > my view is I don’t care who uses what bathroom. Or showers for that matter. > > But, I’m not in a position to say that woman is wrong, bigoted, or ignorant if she doesn’t want to shower with a person with a penis, regardless of gender or orientation. And there doesn’t seem to be a good answer for that. Well I agree it can be a complicated issue. But I also think it’s very rare for women to take showers together. Hell, men barely do this anymore. Most people change discreetly. And I would be willing to bet transgender people want to just fit it and not draw unwanted attention. It’s not like a transgender girl is going to be shaking her dick around the locker room. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/90 "2016-05-19T19:40:41Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Well I agree it can be a complicated issue. But I also think it’s very rare for women to take showers together. Hell, men barely do this anymore. Most people change discreetly. And I would be willing to bet transgender people want to just fit it and not draw unwanted attention. It’s not like a transgender girl is going to be shaking her dick around the locker room. Fair enough. I don’t know how women’s shower rooms are set up. I had assumed similar to some men’s shower rooms (most notably on Army posts), but maybe not. Seems like the many “documentaries” I’ve seen on women’s locker rooms may be deceiving. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/91 "2016-05-19T19:42:05Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Again, I’m not playing “gotcha ya” at all. > > Why would there be any discomfort? You should be as perfectly comfortable showering with a gay person as showering with a straight person. Just like you should be as perfectly comfortable showering with a transgender person as showering with a gender-typical person. Any deviation in comfort between the two is simply a manifestation of your own bigotry, something that you need to work on yourself. _You can’t win._ If you’re not transgender, you’re simply wrong on this issue. Trust me. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/92 "2016-05-19T20:07:35Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Why would there be any discomfort? You should be as perfectly comfortable showering with a gay person as showering with a straight person. Where did you dig up that strawman? Who is the one claiming that everyone should be “perfectly” comfortable" in all situations? If you’re implying I’ve said people should be “perfectly comfortable” then provide the cite. I’ll wager some non-transgender straight persons are “uncomfortable” showering with others of their same sex and gender, simply because…that’s real life? > [@](#): > > Just like you should be as perfectly comfortable showering with a transgender person as showering with a gender-typical person. Any deviation in comfort between the two is simply a manifestation of your own bigotry, something that you need to work on yourself. I have no idea what you’re going on about. I’ve not claimed people should be “perfectly” comfortable in all situations and places showering. I’ve only said that the discomfort of a few people within a group of non-transgender people showering with a transgender person is less of an “evil” than the discomfort faced by the transgender person being forced to shower with others not of their gender. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/93 "2016-05-19T20:07:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _You can’t win._ If you’re not transgender, you’re simply wrong on this issue. Trust me. Oh bullshit. I am not transgender and don’t know even anyone transgender. I am not wrong on this issue. It’s about having some empathy for people who are struggling and feel alienated. How hard is it to just not be an asshole? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/94 "2016-05-19T20:10:17Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > _You can’t win._ If you’re not transgender, you’re simply wrong on this issue. Trust me. Good grief; get \*over \*it already. This thread isn’t about the Great Satan in Clouds of Sulfur, a/k/a the word “cisgender”. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/95 "2016-05-19T20:19:44Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Good grief; get \*over \*it already. This thread isn’t about the Great Satan in Clouds of Sulfur, a/k/a the word “cisgender”. I didn’t even bring that up. You and others generalized attack on anyone who weighs in but isn’t transgender are common. Your own words: "_Basically all these “reasonable solutions” are bullshittery. Just other ways to say “we want to intimidate transgender people because we think they’re freaks/predators/insane, but aren’t brave enough to come out on an internet message board and say it.” There’s not even any point I can see in discussing it. Either let us fucking pee in peace, or be honest about your real motives."_ Whatever anyone else says is dismissed as _“we want to intimidate transgender people because we think they’re freaks/predators/insane, but aren’t brave enough to come out on an internet message board and say it.”_ But yes, the strange idea that since I dont like being called by you by a pejorative term that applies to me, not you- that makes me the bigot- does rankle. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/96 "2016-05-19T20:21:58Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Oh bullshit. I am not transgender and don’t know even anyone transgender. I am not wrong on this issue. It’s about having some empathy for people who are struggling and feel alienated. How hard is it to just not be an asshole? Yes, you are. I am on record as many times saying that people should use whatever bathroom they identify with and also support unisex bathrooms, but it was made very clear\* I am wrong. \* And am a bigot to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Emiliana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f0a364/32.png) [@Emiliana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emiliana)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/97 "2016-05-19T21:06:07Z")
Has anyone seen the waaaaambulance? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/98 "2016-05-19T23:14:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, you are. I am on record as many times saying that people should use whatever bathroom they identify with and also support unisex bathrooms, but it was made very clear\* I am wrong. \* And am a bigot to boot. Oh yeah? Let’s see some examples? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/99 "2016-05-20T01:11:42Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Perhaps you should read it again. Not only did I read it, but I wrote it in the first place. No such claim exists in the statement you quoted, and I’m not going to bother requoting it or arguing this any further. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2016, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901/100 "2016-05-20T08:15:17Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How would you know it was a transgender man? I’ve seen men who either had a serious hormonal problem or were born XX (which definitely constitutes a serious hormonal problem, in their case). I believe the polite descriptor is “wide, child-bearing hips”. While I certainly didn’t go up to them and start asking about their medical history, it’s easy to imagine a 3yo saying “Daddy, why does that man have such a big ass? He’s got a bigger ass than Mommy!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-about-transgender-bathroom-issues/752901.md?page=6)