# Confused on this? Any advice? \[gun rights and mental illness\] **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 8, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849 "2012-01-08T21:21:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tugman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@Tugman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tugman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/1 "2012-01-08T21:21:51Z")
I’m wondering if I have lost my gun rights. Any advice on this will help. Back in 2006 in my freshman year of High School, the school sent me to a mental institution. Yet I was allowed to show up on my own. No police or anything. Once there, I met with a doctor who talked to me for like 15 minutes and then sent me on my way home. Wasn’t even there for an hour. No courts were involved and nothing happened with any treatment. Like it didn’t even happen. Does that qualify as being “committed to a mental institution” or “adjudicated mentally ill” on the ATF Firearms Forum? I was 14 when it happened and was in Florida (Still am in Florida) There is something here called the Baker Act but this DID NOT happen in my case. I know you may not be a lawyer so please, any advice would be great! ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/2 "2012-01-08T21:32:11Z")
You clearly weren’t committed to the institution; you just talked with a psychiatrist. He didn’t seem to assess you as mentally ill. And no court called you such. I wouldn’t think this would have any effect on your owning a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Al\_Bundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@Al\_Bundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al_Bundy)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/3 "2012-01-08T22:22:02Z")
It was a nothing and it never happened anyway. I can say joe blow walking down the street showed signs of hurting himself. If someone believes me, Joe might be sent for observation up to 72 hours. When nothing happens, Joe walks on his merry way and might even sue the so called good Samaritan. Somebody talked to you for an hour. That’s all it was. You don’t have to mention it to anybody else ever. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/4 "2012-01-08T22:39:23Z")
Legal advice is best suited to IMHO. I also edited the title to indicate the subject. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Tugman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@Tugman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tugman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/5 "2012-01-08T22:49:09Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Legal advice is best suited to IMHO. I also edited the title to indicate the subject. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Sorry about that. New to this site so still figuring out its workings and everything. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/6 "2012-01-08T23:16:54Z")
Doesn’t this depend on what state you live in, **Tugman**? Where do you live? At any rate - no cites, but I was always under the impression that if mental health is a factor, it’s severe/chronic mental illness and/or a history of hospitalizations. I can’t imagine that a single visit to a psychiatrist in high school, with no diagnosis, would matter one whit. IIRC, Jared Laughner (shot Congresswoman Giffords) had a documented history of disturbed behaviour, as well as a criminal record, yet still legally opbtained firearms. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/7 "2012-01-08T23:20:55Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Doesn’t this depend on what state you live in, **Tugman**? Where do you live? Florida. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/8 "2012-01-08T23:25:26Z")
> [@Fish\_Cheer](#): > > Florida. :smack: Sorry! [http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html](http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html) First link, “check your eligibility.” > [@](#): > > If you have been adjudicated incapacitated under Section 744.331, Florida Statutes, or similar laws of any other state; committed to a mental institution under Chapter 394, Florida Statutes, or similar laws of any other state; or adjudicated mentally defective in any court, you are not eligible for licensure unless you have received federal relief from disabilities. Looks like the OP is good to go on that score. ---
**Author:** ![Tugman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@Tugman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tugman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/9 "2012-01-08T23:31:25Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > :smack: > Sorry! > > [http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html](http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html) > > First link, “check your eligibility.” > > Looks like the OP is good to go on that score. Haha it’s all good. We all make mistake. That’s what I am considered about. Everyone I asked was telling me what’s the difference between voluntary and involuntary commitment. I already knew that part I’m worried about the word COMMITMENT. A formal commitment by a court, board, commission or a LAWFUL AUTHORITY. Idk if a school counts as a lawful authority. Im also worried that okay even if I’m okay with Florida, what will the Feds say. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/10 "2012-01-08T23:33:56Z")
> [@Tugman](#): > > Everyone I asked was telling me what’s the difference between voluntary and involuntary commitment. But you weren’t committed at all, voluntary or involuntary. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/11 "2012-01-08T23:36:58Z")
Visiting a shrink (or being ordered to do so by a school) isn’t the same as being “committed to a mental institution”…I’m not a lawyer but I’m pretty sure about that! Just call up the Fla licencing board and ask them directly: > **[Florida Department of Agriculture & Consumer Services](https://www.fdacs.gov/Divisions-Offices/Licensing)** (850) 245-5691 ---
**Author:** ![Tugman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@Tugman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tugman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/12 "2012-01-08T23:42:09Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Visiting a shrink (or being ordered to do so by a school) isn’t the same as being “committed to a mental institution”…I’m not a lawyer but I’m pretty sure about that! > > Just call up the Fla licencing board and ask them directly: > [http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/contacts/index.html](http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/contacts/index.html) > (850) 245-5691 Ya that’s what was confusing to me. Did it mean being sent, kept, under special order I didn’t know I read/heard and saw SOOO many different things to that. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/13 "2012-01-08T23:43:19Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > IIRC, Jared Laughner (shot Congresswoman Giffords) had a documented history of disturbed behaviour, as well as a criminal record, yet still legally opbtained firearms. Partially correct. I can’t speak to Arizona gun-control laws, but Loughner’s offenses either never ran to felonies, or were provided relief by [diversion.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversion_program) His documented history never reached the level of [“abjudicated mentally defective.”](http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf) He had also never been committed to a mental institution. As such, there was no federal bar to his possession of a firearm; nothing would have “popped” on a [NICS](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Instant_Criminal_Background_Check_System) check. WRT to the OP’s question, I don’t think being referred to a mental health physician for a consult rises to either of the two standards listed above (adjudicated or committed). ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2012, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/14 "2012-01-08T23:54:41Z")
IMHO based on my own research (I had the same type of questions since I have mental illness and own firearms) “Committed to a mental institution” = Involuntary comittment by a court of law. “Adjudicated Mentally Ill” = found not guilty of a crime by reason of insanity. THe people they’'re trying to filter out are the ones that think Dick Cheney planted a microchip in their brain, not the ones that realized they have problems and seek treatment for anxiety or depression or whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/15 "2012-01-09T00:25:33Z")
Side question: does institutionalization stop you from _possessing_ firearms at all, or can you just not _purchase_ them? Such as: are any ones you possessed before a problem? ---
**Author:** ![Tugman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ebca7d/32.png) [@Tugman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tugman)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/16 "2012-01-09T00:28:30Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Side question: does institutionalization stop you from _possessing_ firearms at all, or can you just not _purchase_ them? Such as: are any ones you possessed before a problem? Iv’e never owned a gun before. I’m not going for a handgun (not 21 yet) and have no intentions on buying one either. I’m going for a shotgun only. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/17 "2012-01-10T03:27:02Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Side question: does institutionalization stop you from _possessing_ firearms at all, or can you just not _purchase_ them? Such as: are any ones you possessed before a problem? I believe the answer is yes. The relevant federal law is the 1968 Federal Gun Control Act. Relevant statutes as well as some case law as to what a “comittment” is: [http://www.ncids.org/Defender%20Training/Civil%20Commitment%202004/FirearmConseq.pdf](http://http://www.ncids.org/Defender%20Training/Civil%20Commitment%202004/FirearmConseq.pdf) The first paragraph has a bunch of gobbledygook about interstate commerce, but the third paragraph about getting rights restored spells out “posession” as well as shipping and receiving, implying the first paragraph is more emcompassing than the commerce of firearms. Of the case law, US vs Giardina is the most relevant to the OP. The person involved was taken involuntarily to a mental hospital but was released prior to a comittment hearing and it was ruled as not a “comittment”. The OP didn’t even get admitted. The cases don’t make clear what happens if you’re transported involuntarily, and upon arival, sign yourself in as a volunteer. (Doctors really really want you to cooperate in the process since it’s less paperwork for them and presumably you have a better prognosis if you consent to treatment). Several cases where a involuntary status was converted to voluntary were held to be a commitment, but in those cases the person was apparently admitted involuntariy for a period of days to months first. States can place further restrictions. Minnesota restricts possession of handguns and semiautomatic “assault” weapons by persons with a comittment. I’m not aware of what Minnesota case law there is of what is or is not a comittment. ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/18 "2012-01-10T03:34:37Z")
Bad URL after edit window [http://www.ncids.org/Defender%20Training/Civil%20Commitment%202004/FirearmConseq.pdf](http://www.ncids.org/Defender%20Training/Civil%20Commitment%202004/FirearmConseq.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![GiantRat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@GiantRat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GiantRat)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/19 "2012-01-10T15:40:20Z")
> [@Tugman](#): > > Iv’e never owned a gun before. I’m not going for a handgun (not 21 yet) and have no intentions on buying one either. I’m going for a shotgun only. You shouldn’t have a problem. Regulations surrounding long arms are pretty lax in most states (IMHO, appropriately so - it’s tough to sneak up on someone with a 12 gauge in your pants). The purchase is typically a 10 minute transaction in which the dealer (assuming you’re buying a new firearm) verifies that you’re not a convicted felon. Handgun purchases are different. Particularly in the Northeast and parts of the West. In many of those jurisdictions, they will query databases to determine if you have ever been treated for mental/psychological disorders and review the results. Things like suicidal/homicidal ideations, psychopathic/sociopathic tendencies, etc, would probably disqualify you. Doesn’t sound like that applies in this case. Out of curiosity, what do you want the gun for? Hunting? Home defense? Plinking? Cool toy? Regardless, bear in mind that there are responsibilities associated with gun ownership. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849/20 "2012-01-10T19:58:32Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > Handgun purchases are different. Particularly in the Northeast and parts of the West. In many of those jurisdictions, they will query databases to determine if you have ever been treated for mental/psychological disorders and review the results. Things like suicidal/homicidal ideations, psychopathic/sociopathic tendencies, etc, would probably disqualify you. I’m curious about how anyone’s confidential medical records (e.g. a discussion with a psychiatrist/psychologist where the patient disclosed suicidal ideation or showed sociopathic tendencies) could be accessed by a gun store clerk. How does that work? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/confused-on-this-any-advice-gun-rights-and-mental-illness/608849.md?page=2)