# Congo self destructing, kids being eaten. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 30, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608 "2003-05-30T19:37:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/1 "2003-05-30T19:37:37Z")
> **[News](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/)** > > Latest breaking news, including politics, crime and celebrity. Find stories, updates and expert opinion. Congo is turning into hell from the looks of it. Tribal warfare has resulted into gangs of cannibals eating arms and hearts of children. a brief history of the conflict can be found [here.](http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Africa/DRC.asp) As usual, the US does nothing, and the UN is almost useless. There are no words for how horrible this is. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/2 "2003-05-30T20:18:47Z")
> [@](#): > > As usual, the US does nothing, and the UN is almost useless. There are no words for how horrible this is Perhaps if the press emphasized that there is an **ARMS** problem in the Congo, we might react. :rolleyes: Sorry for the bad pun. You have to do something. Almost like dealing with the grief of a death by joking about it. Stupid politicians of all parties.:mad: ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/3 "2003-05-30T20:20:29Z")
Because it is the US’s responsibility to save everyone else from their own problems, even if they hate us for it afterward, right? Sorry, I don’t want to be snarky or start a fight, and it really is awful (I was listening to a show on NPR about this yesterday), it just confuses me a bit sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/4 "2003-05-30T20:57:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jinwicked \* > \*\*Because it is the US’s responsibility to save everyone else from their own problems, even if they hate us for it afterward, right? > \*\* That seems to be the policy of the current administration. Given that both Iraq’s WMDs and Iraq’s links to Al Qaeda have turned out to be nothing more than smoke blown out of George W. Bush’s ass, the only remaining rationale for our invasion of the country is that it eliminated an odious dictator. If this is the new standard for intervention, it seems as though logical consistency would _demand_ that we invade Congo as soon as possible to stop the killing. Of course, asking a Republican to be either logical or consistent is asking a great deal … . ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/5 "2003-05-30T20:58:39Z")
As the article notes, this has been going on for a long long time although the violence is escalating. Several months ago, some one started a supposedly humorous thread about the cannibalism of the Batua (pygmies) by rebel forces in MPSIM. I probably came off as a pompous ass in that thread but I just didn’t see anything to laugh about. > **[Congo rebels are eating pygmies, UN says](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/09/congo.jamesastill)** > > UN officials are investigating allegations of cannibalism in Ituri province, where fighting between several rebel groups has displaced about 150,000 people in the past month. The Congo has great potential as the region is supposedly rich in mineral resources but government corruption and continuous warfare has prevented much development. > [@](#): > > Because it is the US’s responsibility to save everyone else from their own problems, even if they hate us for it afterward, right? I don’t have any answers either and I certainly don’t want the U.S. to assume the role of the world’s policemen. It does seem that we as a nation are much quicker to act when 1)oil is involved or 2) the victims are white. It’s just so sad. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Raven\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@The\_Raven\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Raven_1)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/6 "2003-05-30T21:26:45Z")
Howyadoin, Don’t sweat it folks, the French have it covered… Maybe this would be a good opportunity to take that French-German-Belgian military alliance for a test drive. But then again, I’m not so sure the Belgians want to get anywhere near Congo (or Rwanda, for that matter) again. So, someone wanna read that article and honestly tell me that there is no such thing as evil in this world? That all differences between groups of people on this poor benighted rock can be resolved by UN circle-jerks and a couple hundred thousand useful idiots singing choruses of “Kumbaya”? Evil cannot be bargained with. Evil cannot be placated. Evil cannot be wished away. Evil exists. -Rav ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/7 "2003-05-30T22:04:16Z")
**The\_Raven**. If I’m mis-reading your post, excuse me. > [@](#): > > So, someone wanna read that article and honestly tell me that there is no such thing as evil in this world? That all differences between groups of people on this poor benighted rock can be resolved by UN circle-jerks and a couple hundred thousand useful idiots singing choruses of “Kumbaya”? So, smart-ass. You got a solution? Just let it continue? What would you do, asshole? And I expect an answer, since you have an opinion of what **doesn’t work**. Be useful. Solve the problem. ---
**Author:** ![mobo85](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mobo85](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mobo85)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/8 "2003-05-30T22:11:15Z")
Kinshahsa or Brazzaville? ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/9 "2003-05-30T22:19:01Z")
Democratic Republic of the Congo, so Kinshasa ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/10 "2003-05-31T00:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > As usual, the US does nothing… Ya know, I had a very nasty, yet snarky, retort to this comment all composed in my head, but then realized how stupid it would be to turn such a horrible situation into a pointless pissing match. Upon further reflection, I would have to say that I understand and agree with you 100%, **Tars.** ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/11 "2003-05-31T00:38:38Z")
> [@](#): > > As usual, the US does nothing… Where the hell does it say that in either linked article? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/12 "2003-05-31T00:54:11Z")
> [@](#): > > As usual, the US does nothing… > > Where the hell does it say that in either linked article? Without debating that point, WHAT has the US done? ---
**Author:** ![Rhum\_Runner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rhum\_Runner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhum_Runner)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/13 "2003-05-31T01:01:46Z")
About a year before 9/11 there was a thread about the Talibaan, entitled IIRC “When will enough be enough?” and on 9/11 it was enough. Not sure how that relates here, but I think it does in some way. But where is Kofi on this? If the world doesn’t want the US to be the police force, then someone else needs to step up to the plate. Why doesn’t Europe do something? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/14 "2003-05-31T01:27:44Z")
Oh, the OP said that. Attribute your quotes, please! ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/15 "2003-05-31T01:29:58Z")
> [@](#): > > the world doesn’t want the US to be the police force… I don’t think ‘the world’ has ever objectd to the US being a police force. Unfortunately in recent times the US’ actions have been more akin to a vigilante than a police officer. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/aeb1de/32.png) [@The\_Calculus\_of\_Logic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Calculus_of_Logic)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/16 "2003-05-31T01:36:24Z")
I’ve been following this for a few weeks. Either today or yesterday the UN approved a peacekeeping mission in the Congo. The countries involved are France, Nigeria, Pakistan & South Africa. Personally, i think more effort should be made to encourage African countries like Uganda, South Africa or Nigeria to solve these problems of their own continent themselves. There are 192 countries on earth, not just the US and a handful of western european countries. The US & western europe didn’t want to get involved in Rwanda, we’ve/they’ve proven their inefficency and political meandering. Even in this instance, there is alot of political meandering. ---
**Author:** ![jackelope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@jackelope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackelope)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/17 "2003-05-31T01:45:56Z")
The entire situation is a clusterfuck. There’s a well-written piece on it in the current New Yorker (in the “Talk of the Town” section, I think; don’t have it here with me) discussing the US’s I think understandable reluctance to go in and the rationale for doing nothing. In Iraq there was something more at stake for the US: there was oil, of course, but there was also a ruler who had tried to assassinate the US president (please don’t snipe about “W’s daddy”; a government that tries to assassinate _any_ US president knows it’s endangering itself), in addition to the questionable WMDs. But Congo doesn’t seem to have any bearing whatsoever on the US; in a purely selfish vein, we have to ask ourselves, “am I willing to have my best friend/brother/son/self die to stop the Bosch-like hell in Congo?” The New Yorker piece ended with an incredibly bleak statement along the lines of “The ultimate horror in the Congo nightmare may turn out to be that there is no price [to the US] for letting it go on.” ---
**Author:** ![GoHeels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b3f665/32.png) [@GoHeels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GoHeels)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/18 "2003-05-31T02:27:17Z")
**Jlzania:** > [@](#): > > It does seem that we as a nation are much quicker to act when 1)oil is involved or 2) the victims are white. It’s just so sad. What about Vietnam? Oil there? No. Victims white? No. Or Somalia? **samclem:** > [@](#): > > So, smart-ass. You got a solution? Just let it continue? What would you do, asshole? > > And I expect an answer, since you have an opinion of what doesn’t work. Be useful. Solve the problem. IMHO, **samclem** , **Raven’s** snarkiness is more justified than yours (although, in fairness, you did say that you may have misinterpreted his quote). At least Raven has taken the first step toward a solution in acknowledging that evil exists. If you demand a solution from Raven, I hope you’re also prepared to offer one of your own. I wouldn’t presume to offer a solution, since I have no idea of what they’re fighting about and have little knowledge of the culture and history of the Congo (except that it used to be a Belgian colony). The only thing I can think of is to let the evil bastards perpetrating the atrocities to kill each other off for a while and that the warring parties eventually tire of war and learn to co-exist. In other words, they THEMSELVES have to stop the war, not have a cease-fire imposed on them. And as an aside (this is not directed at you, samclem)… The problem I have with Western liberals who decry these types of outrages and simultaneously chide America for not “doing anything” to help solve the problem is that quite frankly, it’s a lot easier to self-righteously proclaim their “compassion” for innocents living in agony than it is to admit what happened in a places like Congo, or Somalia. What has happened in these places is the complete breakdown of everything worthwhile. What do you want us to do? Provide food? A place like Somalia was absolutely flooded with food aid during the 90s famine, but armed thugs would steal it and use it as a weapon of war. Hell, the problem of theft in Somalia was so bad that the only way to deal with it was to flood the country with so much food that it was too cheap to steal. Of course, the law of basic economics kicked in, and the local farmers who actually grew food in Somalia ended up growing crops they couldn’t sell because of the food glut. They too, starved en masse. Send the U.S. marines in to make sure the food got to starving women and children? We all saw how well that worked out. At least Raven is facing up to what is happening, and calling a spade a spade. That’s a start - admit the truth. And, let’s also admit another truth - in Congo, just like in Somalia, until the warring parties themselves curb the evil that they’re perpetrating, the United States doesn’t have a dog in their hunt. It isn’t our fault this war is going on, and it’s not our job to stop it - it’s theirs. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/19 "2003-05-31T03:01:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Calculus of Logic \* > \*\*Either today or yesterday the UN approved a peacekeeping mission in the Congo. \*\* Given that there’s very little “peace” to “keep” in this situation, I’m not hopeful. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2003, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608/20 "2003-05-31T03:15:42Z")
The last major project my father did before he died was a series of documentaries on the Congo. You can see material here: [http://www.cbc.ca/webone/congo/index.html](http://www.cbc.ca/webone/congo/index.html) . The war is of unbelievable proportions. More than three _million_ people have already died and most of the countries of central Africa are involved. One of the problems my father looked at is that foreign and insurgent troops are illegally strip-mining occupied Congolese territory of minerals, such as [coltan](http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coltan) (used in integrated circuits; Congo is one of the largest sources), selling them on foreign markets, and using the resulting money for their war effort. IOW, electronics manufacturers who want a cheap source of coltan are buying Congo’s mineral wealth and financing war on Congo itself. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congo-self-destructing-kids-being-eaten/178608.md?page=2)