# Congratulations, Scott Dyleski. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 22, 2005, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417 "2005-10-22T12:18:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LadySybil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c89c15/32.png) [@LadySybil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LadySybil)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/21 "2005-10-23T02:00:27Z")
Whoops, forgot to cite: [http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/taylor\_behl.htm](http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/taylor_behl.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/22 "2005-10-23T02:58:55Z")
> [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > This board, out of all groups in society, should know not to judge a book by its cover. Disgusting. > > Adam Hey, asswipe, what did I say? “When you really get to know…” Now what does that imply? Gee, if I didn’t have shit for brains, I might figure what **Loopy** meant was that while the get-up (the cover, if you will) might be intimidating to the unfamiliar, the Marilyn Manson look-alike skulking in the corner really isn’t that scary (the deceptively benign book in the aforementioned cover, if you’re following along). That’s great you know rich goths who make fudge or whatever the fuck. Most I got to know were the usual misfits who felt affecting the look and mannerisms of some dark counterculture elevated them above pathetic. Different scenes, different experiences, I guess. Learn to fucking understand what you just read. ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/23 "2005-10-23T05:29:50Z")
> [@LadySybil](#): > > **Mischievous** , I’m surprised this hasn’t made the national news, but for about a month or so it was all the rage down where I am in the Shallow South… It may have made the national news - I’m in a bit of my self-filtered media bubble. > [@LadySybil](#): > > I swear, if more people would listen to the musician/artist/writer who is Voltaire… The man, the myth, the shameless self-promoter. Who drinks gay pirates at Alchemy until he can’t finish a sentence. Don’t get me wrong, I think Voltaire’s pretty fucking cool, but he’s just a big goofball who has no more right to speak for the goth scene as a whole than anyone else. mischievous ---
**Author:** ![LadySybil](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c89c15/32.png) [@LadySybil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LadySybil)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/24 "2005-10-23T06:07:47Z")
Well, yeah, of course Voltaire’s a goofball. He’s the shameless self-promoting gothboi posterboy. He’s supposed to make Goths look all funny and harmless… at least until the the goth agenda is affirmed! Ahahahahahahaha! Not really. But he’s trying to make gothiness a little more mainstream, which might help conservatives hate it less. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/25 "2005-10-23T07:52:43Z")
First of all, let me say that I have nothing against Goths, although I’ve met precious few of them (they aren’t that prevelant in my part of the world, probably because it’s too hot for trenchcoats and because there’s no real way to avoid a good suntan). I also have nothing against black clothing - it hides stains and it goes with absolutely everything. The thing that bugs me about Goths is their _etymology_. Let’s go through the history: First, there were a couple of tribes rampaging through europe in the 4th century AD. They were known as the “Ostrogoths” and “Visigoths,” and they eventually morphed into the Spanish (well, the latter did. I’m not sure what happened to the Eastern Goths). _Then_, seven centuries later, people started building churches in a style dfferent from the accepted Romanesque form. Critics thought these new cathedrals were barbaric and called them “Gothic.” _Then_, early 19th century Britain went through an early backlash to the upcoming Industrail revolution by poplularizing and romanticizing various medieval/chivalric themes. This was known as the “Gothic Revival,” and involved, among other things, the construction of large amounts of neo-Gothic buildings. _Then_, a bunch of writers started setting a bunch of fantastical stories set in neo-Gothic buildings. These sories later became known as “Gothic Horror.” _Then_, a century later, these stories became popularized through the magic of cinema, and new writers started writing Gothic-styled horror stories. _Then_, young men and women started dressing like characters in the new stories. They started calling themselves “Goths.” No offence, but that’s just silly. It’s a fourth-hand name that means nothing like it originally did. Dress however you like, color your hair to your heart’s desire, but if you call yourself a Goth I’ll assume you’re on your way to sack Rome. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/26 "2005-10-23T08:00:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No offence, but that’s just silly. It’s a fourth-hand name that means nothing like it originally did. Dress however you like, color your hair to your heart’s desire, but if you call yourself a Goth I’ll assume you’re on your way to sack Rome. Hate to break it to you, but the meanings of words change. There’s no connection to the Visigoths, but there’s a connection to the term’s last previous meaning. It happens. Sometimes the changes are contradictory or stupid, but refusing to acknowledge what a word means won’t make you look principled. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/27 "2005-10-23T08:07:00Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Hate to break it to you, but the meanings of words change. There’s no connection to the Visigoths, but there’s a connection to the term’s last previous meaning. It happens. Sometimes the changes are contradictory or stupid, but refusing to acknowledge what a word means won’t make you look principled. Oh, I know - the end was hyperbole. It’s just that as a minor history buff I encounter the word in its classical sense almost as often as I do in its contemporary sense, and I often have to stop and reread a sentance to see if the writer is referring to a hairy Germanic raider, or to a post-Anne Rice devotee. The shifts of meaning for this particular word are so tortured I personally find them utterly ridiculous, although YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/28 "2005-10-23T08:07:47Z")
Other than **Marley23** has the media started drawing similarities between Dylan Kliebold and this kid? I do feel sorry for the goth kids (and adults) if this turns into a “goths are to be feared” media frenzy. From what I have experienced with folks who follow that lifestyle - in part or full-on - they are just regular folks who act and dress a certain way. There just happens to be crazies amongst them, just like businessmen, housewives, preists, and anyone else. _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/29 "2005-10-23T08:17:24Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > No offence, but that’s just silly. It’s a fourth-hand name that means nothing like it originally did. Do I need to brush up on my Indo-European to communicate properly with you? ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/30 "2005-10-23T08:19:38Z")
Oops overlapped and missed your reply. I still think your critique is sillier than the term Goth (which is, I’ll grant you, a silly name - but which nicely suits the silly look). ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/31 "2005-10-23T08:23:55Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Other than **Marley23** has the media started drawing similarities between Dylan Kliebold and this kid? **mischievous** actually mentioned Columbine before I did. 😉 This is exactly the kind of news story I usually try to ignore. But I saw no Columbine comparisons on CNN or the New York Times’s Web site. Maybe some TV pundits would say it, I don’t know. Harris and Klebold weren’t goths, as **mischievous** noted, and from the scanty articles I’ve seen after reading this thread, it sounds like this kid was a screwed-up poseur in any case. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/32 "2005-10-23T14:11:24Z")
I always thought the goths were really pretty silly. As usual, South Park said it best. > [@Episode 7.14 "Raisins"](#): > > Goth 1: [with black puffy, feathery hair, streaked in red] Life is pain. Life is only pain. [his large bang falls over his right eye, he jerks his head back to put the bang in place] We’re all taught to believe in happy fairytale endings. [his bang fall over his eye, he jerks his head back] But there’s only blackness. Dark, depressing loneliness that [his bang fall over his eye, he jerks his head back] eats at your soul. > > Goth 2: [dressed in something like a tuxedo, sporting a curly pompadour] Who needs that kind of Barbie love, anyway? Everyone’s just walking around like a bunch of conforminsts. Go ahead and wear your business suits so you can make thirty-four thousand dollars a year to buy your condominium. They’re all zombies racing to their graves. Love didn’t work for my mom and dad. Why should it work for me? > > Goth Girl: My dad is such an asshole. Drunken bastard doesn’t even know I exist. But then he won’t let me go to the Skinny Puppy concert because my heroine-addict aunt is coming over for dinner. [takes a puff] Dinner? That’s a laugh. Just an excuse for my mom to bitch at me for not wearing girly clothes like all the Britney Spears wannabes at this school. > > Little Goth: They’re all a bunch of Nazi conformists cheerleaders. [Stan looks stunned at the age of this youngest of Goths] > > Stan: But if life is only pain, then… what’s the point of living? > > Goth 1: Just to make life more miserable for the conformists. [his bang fall over his eye, he jerks his head back] > > Stan: All right, so how do I join you? > > Goth 2: If you wanna be one of the non-conformists, all you have to do is dress just like us and listen to the same music we do. ---
**Author:** ![Wolfian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7ea924/32.png) [@Wolfian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolfian)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/33 "2005-10-23T16:53:39Z")
> [@Agent Foxtrot](#): > > For a board that so revels in its supposed staunch liberalism, tolerance, and open-mindedness, you people sure know how to pigeonhole a group of people. Shame on you. Psst. They were joking. Man, you Goths get riled up so fast. 😃 Besides, everyone knows that a Goth’s worst enemy is neither the media, nor the sun, but rather [Anne Rice](http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp09212004.shtml). And before this turns into a “you’re prejudiced” thing: 1) I’m joking and 2) I had (have) a thing for this Goth girl I know. Fishnets: not just for Black Canary anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/34 "2005-10-23T16:59:10Z")
This story does not make me fear Goths. This story make me fear credit card thieves who can’t remember what address they had their stolen goods sent to. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/35 "2005-10-23T20:24:26Z")
Isn’t Goth, like, so 90s? Or was it 80s? Kids should be required to develop completely new fads every 4-5 years. Where’s the creativity? Where’s the rebellion? Why, in my day… ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/36 "2005-10-23T20:42:17Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Isn’t Goth, like, so 90s? Or was it 80s? > > Kids should be required to develop completely new fads every 4-5 years. Where’s the creativity? Where’s the rebellion? Why, in my day… I’m just waiting for a Juggalo murderer. They seem to be the next silly trend. Headbanger CEO’s, Punk accountants, Emo software engineers and Gothic loan officers. It really is time for a new “rebel”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/37 "2005-10-24T02:10:39Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > Besides, everyone knows that a Goth’s worst enemy is neither the media, nor the sun, but rather [Anne Rice](http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp09212004.shtml). Judging by this thread, I’d’ve thought it was a sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/38 "2005-10-24T02:16:04Z")
> [@Wolfian](#): > > Psst. They were joking. Man, you Goths get riled up so fast. 😃 > > Besides, everyone knows that a Goth’s worst enemy is neither the media, nor the sun, but rather [Anne Rice](http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp09212004.shtml). > And before this turns into a “you’re prejudiced” thing: 1) I’m joking and 2) I had (have) a thing for this Goth girl I know. Fishnets: not just for Black Canary anymore. Nah, I’m not goth. And perhaps I did jump the gun just a little. No harm meant. 😉 Adam ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/39 "2005-10-24T03:52:05Z")
**Loopydude** , what the Hell’s wrong with you? You make something that is _at best_ a stupid joke, someone calls you on it, and you explode like someone just took a header into your brand-new Lexus. Get some perspective. ---
**Author:** ![Updike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@Updike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Updike)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417/40 "2005-10-24T04:17:35Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > I do feel sorry for the goth kids (and adults) if this turns into a “goths are to be feared” media frenzy. The terms “goth” and “adult” are mutually exclusive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-scott-dyleski/327417.md?page=3)