# Congratulations, straight supremacists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 12, 2003, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786 "2003-11-12T10:26:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/41 "2003-11-12T16:25:43Z")
Do I have to cite **lissener**? And yes, I actually have had this discussion IRL, **vanilla**. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/42 "2003-11-12T16:27:43Z")
> [@](#): > > So, a person is trash for believing in what has been taught to him by his church and community all his life (probably)? Don’t you think ‘trash’ is a bit on the harsh side of the judgement spectrum? > > Couldn’t we find a lower caliber slot? Mis-guided fool, maybe? Into which calibre slot do, e.g., people who believe that Jewish people are a blight and deserve extermination, fit? After all, death is a lesser fate than eternal damnation, so they are by definition better off than those who believe in eternal damnation for a group of blameless people. If at all possible, can you point your nephew towards this site? I suppose an ideal situation is him realizing that there are a great many idiots in the world, and a depressing number with a hatred of him personally, that this is not his fault, and that such people are not worth paying attention to unless they’re taking a swing at him. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/43 "2003-11-12T16:31:33Z")
I wasn’t going to get involved in the slams by people filled with hate, because I didn’t think it was condusive to supporting **Mr. V**. Is proving his point really going to make him feel better? But **Debaser** ’s post took my breath away. So I’ll say this about your nephew. That the community he’s in found out sucks. I’m sure this new life isn’t what he wanted. Now everyone knows (I presume). But he’s not the only gay person in that town, no matter how small or how conservative it is. He’s not the only gay kid. Maybe he can help those peers more alone than he is, and maybe he can feel good about himself again. Being out is more than being a target for violence, its also letting people still “in” that everything’s going to be okay. ---
**Author:** ![jlzania](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jlzania](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jlzania)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/44 "2003-11-12T16:36:09Z")
> [@](#): > > First off, there’s a big deal about “coming out”, when nobody really cares. They really don’t. You know, when some one has been forced to deny a major part of what they are in order to be accepted, finally having th courage to say “This is who I am” **is** a big damn deal. I know it was for my friend John because it meant being able to accept himself. > [@](#): > > Second, when people “come out”, it’s been my observation that they become extraordinarily assertive about their homosexuality That’s a pretty commom human trait. Personally, I find those Christians who’ve just discovered God far more annoyingly in your face. > [@](#): > > Third, people are not yet accustomed to public displays of affection from two people of the same sex. I’m not fond of people playing suck face in public either. That said, if some one has difficulty with two man or two woman holding hands or walking down the street with their arms around each other, I tend to believe that it’s **their** problem and **they** need to modify their behavior, not said couple. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/45 "2003-11-12T16:37:26Z")
> [@](#): > > You know what I think turns people off to homosexuality?.. Hey, everyone, watch this: \ I heretoforth acknowledge my support of X, to be filled in later. I also acknowledge many and gleeful actions of type Y, where Y is something that Airman Doors disagrees with more than he disagrees with X. By his logic, this should drive him into supporting X. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/46 "2003-11-12T16:39:36Z")
> [@](#): > > First off, there’s a big deal about “coming out”, when nobody really cares. They really don’t. Apparently, people in Nebraska care quite a bit, to the point of at least one young gay person contemplating fleeing the state. As long as people show that they “care” about homosexuality by banning same-sex marriage or discriminating against gay people or barring them from the Air Force or posting bigoted shit to message boards like “I don’t agree with homosexuality” (to name but a few examples) then it is vitally important for gay people to come out. Survey after survey after survey demonstrate that it is much more likely that a straight person will be supportive of gay equality if s/he knows openly gay people. You’re a case in point. > [@](#): > > Second, when people “come out”, it’s been my observation that they become extraordinarily assertive about their homosexuality. “Look everyone, I’m gay! And if you don’t like it, you’re a homophobe!” Some do, some don’t. You tend to notice the more vocal people and overlook the quieter ones. When I came out in college I pretty much exploded out of the closet and took no prisoners. It was a style that worked from a political standpoint but after graduation in the “real world” it didn’t work so well so I toned it down. It’s been my experience that most gay people follow a similar coming out arc. > [@](#): > > Third, people are not yet accustomed to public displays of affection from two people of the same sex. It’s rare enough to be jarring to your average Joe. Hell, I don’t like PDA at all. I rarely kiss my wife in public, because for me it’s something that should be done in private. I agree with you that _most_ PDAs are best done in private. Gay couples, however, should have the freedom to be exactly as affectionate with each other in public as straight couples. I have no problem with banishing the bulk of PDAs (although I don’t really see them too often) as long as the banishment is across all sexual lines. As far as people being jarred by gay PDAs, they won’t stop being jarred by them until they become accustomed to them, and they won’t become accustomed to them unless they see them. > [@](#): > > My major turnoff with homosexuality is that men try to hit on me. I find that to be very uncomfortable. On this point unfortunately I can muster no sympathy. Feeling uncomfortable at the idea of being found sexually attractive is a personal hangup on your part. I hope that you will at some point be able to view this as a compliment as opposed to an affront (assuming that the men aren’t engaging in Arnold-style activity with you). ---
**Author:** ![Bandanaman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@Bandanaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bandanaman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/47 "2003-11-12T16:47:05Z")
> [@](#): > > he can risk tauntings, shunnings, beatings, depression, suicide. Sounds like (ab)normal teenage life to me. Or does it only matter if it’s a gay person? :ROLLEYES: I’m glad us short, fat, kids with glasses never got picked on. We might have had to, I don’t know, actually _deal_ with it. ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/48 "2003-11-12T16:48:18Z")
I do see where you’re coming from, **Airman**. A few points, though: 1. I don’t like getting “hit on” much, either. A lot of people don’t, no matter what the sex of the hitter on. It’s a fact of life. 2. Not everyone makes a big deal of their coming out, or of their sexual orientation at all. Obviously some do, and you see those more than others. 3. Those who do make a big deal do it for a good reason. It’s because it’s part of who they are, one they feel very strongly about. Some people feel they aren’t presenting themselves honestly if they don’t present their sexual orientation. It’s a part of self-identity. And because it’s not the default assumption, sometimes it becomes even more important to recognize your self-identification. This happens in other cases too, obviously. For example, you identify strongly as an Airman. It’s even in your name! Of course my sympathy goes out to **Mr. Visible** s nephew. I am constantly thankful that I live in a place where, for the most part, no one gives two figs about what my orientation is. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/49 "2003-11-12T16:49:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > I AM supportive of the homosexual agenda, even though I was contemplating the priesthood, in addition to being a major homophobe back before I joined the SDMB. So people are coming around to your cause, guys. And it is definitely appreciated. > [@](#): > > You know what I think turns people off to homosexuality? First off, there’s a big deal about “coming out”, when nobody really cares. They really don’t. Um, in small towns with heavily fundamentalist leanings they most certainly do care. Coming out in any milieu is intensely personal and scary, but even more so when you are the only one in a hostile area. > [@](#): > > Second, when people “come out”, it’s been my observation that they become extraordinarily assertive about their homosexuality. “Look everyone, I’m gay! And if you don’t like it, you’re a homophobe!”. Bad idea. Accusing people of some alleged flaw in their character is not going to make them like you more. Well, when that closet door swings open, there is a tendency for some gay folks to get a little wild, but they usually get over it. > [@](#): > > Third, people are not yet accustomed to public displays of affection from two people of the same sex. It’s rare enough to be jarring to your average Joe. Hell, I don’t like PDA at all. I rarely kiss my wife in public, because for me it’s something that should be done in private. So do you ever hold **MsRobyn** ’s hand in public. You’re flaunting your sexuality! Do you have a pictures of **MsRobyn** and **Airman, Jr.** on your desk at work? You’re flaunting your sexuality! Do you ever mention that you have a wife to anyone else? Again with the flaunting! See, even to say, “My partner and I went to the movies last night” is enough to cause many people to saythat I’m putting my sexuality up in their face. > [@](#): > > I personally don’t care anymore. My major turnoff with homosexuality is that men try to hit on me. I find that to be very uncomfortable. I’m sure it is. All that’s required is to say, “Not interested.” And where are you getting hit on? > [@](#): > > So, as long as people let me go about my business, I let them go about theirs and we’re all happy. But when you put it right up in someone’s face, you can’t expect people to be thrilled about it, any more than you would be if I sucked face right in front of you with my wife. You’ve never “sucked face” in my presence, but you have indicated that you two are a couple right in front of God and me. Just another incidence of militant heterosexuals advancing the straight agenda. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/50 "2003-11-12T16:52:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jlzania \* > **That’s a pretty commom human trait. > Personally, I find those Christians who’ve just discovered God far more annoyingly in your face.** So do I. **robertligouri** : What? Can you write that in clear, lucid English, please? ---
**Author:** ![Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Helen\_s\_Eidolon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helen_s_Eidolon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/51 "2003-11-12T16:55:29Z")
As a side note: I fully support any two people, of any genders, sucking face in public. I like to kiss my boyfriend when we’re out at a movie, and I go “aww…” when I see two guys kissing at an ice cream shop. Maybe it’s a Montreal thing. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/52 "2003-11-12T17:01:12Z")
Do I ever hold **MsRobyn** ’s hand in public? No. Do I have any pictures of Robin or the baby at work? Nope. My private life is my own, and there’s a long story behind that, but that’s neither here nor there. So are we agreeing or disagreeing, **gobear**? I’m hardly a militant heterosexual. I’m so discreet it literally pisses Robin off. My own MOTHER once asked me if I was gay, I’m so discreet. And hell, that I’m married is no big secret. That you’re gay is no big secret, either, so enough with the “flaunting” stuff already. Geez. BTW, you need to bring your partner to some Dopefests, dude. He has to be over that whole “Cow is not a Doper” thing by now, isn’t he? ---
**Author:** ![Marathon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7cd45c/32.png) [@Marathon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marathon)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/53 "2003-11-12T17:01:52Z")
I’m still waiting to hear what the “agenda” is. **Airman Doors** , I was happy to read your post. Thank you. I’m glad you’ve done some coming around. Just want to address this one thing (as others have already done, but it’s on my mind): > [@](#): > > First off, there’s a big deal about “coming out”, when nobody really cares. They really don’t. Of course people care. Haven’t we all heard people debating or gossiping about someone whose orientation was questionable? I’ve heard it, and I’ve done it. I’d qualify that as caring about someone’s sexual orientation, even if views for or against homosexuality don’t come into play at all. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/54 "2003-11-12T17:11:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Homebrew \* > \*\*Again, what **Agenda** is that **Debaser**? And what part of that agenda do you oppose? \*\* I would like to add that I would appreciate it if anyone can give me an answer to this question. Also: > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bandanaman \* > \*\*Sounds like (ab)normal teenage life to me. Or does it only matter if it’s a gay person? :ROLLEYES: > > I’m glad us short, fat, kids with glasses never got picked on. We might have had to, I don’t know, actually _deal_ with it. \*\* Can we talk about this? Are you saying that the shunning that is experienced by kids that are “short/fat/with glasses” is even on the same level of menace and systematic nature as that experienced by outed teens in high school? More importantly, rather than get in to the whole “which group is more oppressed” argument, can you state simply where it is that you stand on the issue at hand? ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/55 "2003-11-12T17:29:08Z")
> [@](#): > > First off, there’s a big deal about “coming out”, when nobody really cares. They really don’t. “As long as our culture makes coming out an act of civil disobedience, being gay will be a political statement.” - Kenneth Hanes And MrVisible, I’m so sorry to read about your nephew, but happy to learn that they haven’t broken him enough to make him realize he still has options, and to know that he has a supportive group of relatives, including you. Please keep us posted. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/56 "2003-11-12T17:29:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > Do I ever hold **MsRobyn** ’s hand in public? No. > > Do I have any pictures of Robin or the baby at work? Nope. My private life is my own, and there’s a long story behind that, but that’s neither here nor there. > > So are we agreeing or disagreeing, **gobear**? I’m hardly a militant heterosexual. I’m so discreet it literally pisses Robin off. My own MOTHER once asked me if I was gay, I’m so discreet. Well, shoot, so much for using you for comparison purposes. Amd yes we’re agreeing, it’s just that some of your points indicate that you don’t quite understand what the gay Dopers are stressed about. > [@](#): > > And hell, that I’m married is no big secret. That you’re gay is no big secret, either, so enough with the “flaunting” stuff already. Geez. Ah, but don’t you see the difference? If you say, "I’m married, " people take that as a matter of course. If I say that I’m partnered in exactly the same context, people will say, “Ugh, don’t flaunt yourself at ME!” So I’m not fussing at you, I’m just trying to show you that gay folks have reason to be annoyed with societal attitudes. > [@](#): > > BTW, you need to bring your partner to some Dopefests, dude. He has to be over that whole “Cow is not a Doper” thing by now, isn’t he? I’ve been working on it, but he’s really not with the whole Doper thing. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/57 "2003-11-12T17:32:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bandanaman \* > \*\*Sounds like (ab)normal teenage life to me. Or does it only matter if it’s a gay person? :ROLLEYES: > > I’m glad us short, fat, kids with glasses never got picked on. We might have had to, I don’t know, actually _deal_ with it. \*\* Maybe you can point out where in this thread anyone suggested that being picked on or tormented or driven to suicide only matters when the victim is gay? Because I must have missed it. And there is a bit of a difference between being picked on for being fat, etc. and being picked on for being gay. While thankfully this is changing, more times than not a glasses-wearing or overweight child has some sort of support system at home whereas oftentimes a gay child does not. Not that this is an attempt to excuse picking on fat kids or kids with glasses, but after all the topic of the thread is a gay kid. ---
**Author:** ![Tanaqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3bc359/32.png) [@Tanaqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tanaqui)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/58 "2003-11-12T17:36:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m glad us short, fat, kids with glasses never got picked on. We might have had to, I don’t know, actually deal with it. That’s odd. I was short, fat, and had glasses when I was a kid. I went to a rural school district, and was taunted for wearing cheap clothes and being an atheist. But you know what? I was never in danger of being kicked out of my house by my parents because I was fat. I was never in danger of being beaten, tortured, and murdered because I didn’t go to church. I was never terrified about telling my parents and friends I needed glasses. I never thought I was going to hell because I was _short._ There is a reason why statistics consistently show that gay teens are far more at risk for suicide than straight teens. Gay children are subjected to hatred that is institutionalized. They hear it from their church, their family, their parents, their friends, their teachers, and random adults on television, in the streets, sitting beside them on the bus–not just peers. And I _do_ think it’s a terrible thing whenever _any_ kid is tormented by his or her peers, but I still manage to retain a sense of perspective. MrVisible, I’m so sorry about your nephew’s situation. It just breaks my heart every time I hear about something like this. I hope that things get better. I just hope he can remember that not everyone is like the people he’s having to put up with, and that there is hope for the future. I hope he know that there are plenty of kids his own age who have no problem with his sexuality, and I hope he can remember that when he’s lonely. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/59 "2003-11-12T17:44:58Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m hardly a militant heterosexual. I’m so discreet it literally pisses Robin off. My own MOTHER once asked me if I was gay, I’m so discreet. The difference here being that you are _choosing_ to be discreet, whereas for many gay people “discretion” is forced upon them. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2003, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786/60 "2003-11-12T17:52:18Z")
"I’m still waiting to hear what the “agenda” is. " It’s just like the heterosexual agenda, i.e., constitutional rights like life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but it’s got lots of gay sex. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-straight-supremacists/212786.md?page=4)