# Congratulations! You're no longer a Jew! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 16, 2010, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893 "2010-07-16T11:12:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/21 "2010-07-16T18:00:53Z")
Out of curiosity, even if the legislation is passed what’s to prevent American Jews from simply ignoring the edict? Why do they have to pay fealty to what the State of Israel and a small group of Rabbis tells them WRT to whether they are acceptable Jews? Are Jews as obeisant to a top down hierarchical authority as Catholics? ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/22 "2010-07-16T18:03:49Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Out of curiosity, even if the legislation is passed what’s to prevent American Jews from simply ignoring the edict? Why do they have to pay fealty to what the State of Israel and a small group of Rabbis tells them WRT to whether they are acceptable Jews? They don’t, unless they want to immigrate to Israel or get married in Israel. > [@](#): > > Are Jews as obeisant to a top down hierarchical authority as Catholics? Have you ever heard the saying “two Jews, three opinions”? In a word, nope. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/23 "2010-07-16T18:11:58Z")
I know nothing about the inner workings of Judaism, so pardon me if this is an ignorant question. Does the Israeli parliament even have the spiritual/religious authority to make a declaration like this? I mean, sure, if this were Catholicism and the Pope, but does Judaism even have a central religious authority? ETA: Just saw the post above mine. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/24 "2010-07-16T18:14:15Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > About time. > > Secretly running the world can’t be for everyone, you know. Only for people who get their foreskins snipped off on the kitchen table. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/25 "2010-07-16T18:15:47Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I know nothing about the inner workings of Judaism, so pardon me if this is an ignorant question. > > Does the Israeli parliament even have the spiritual/religious authority to make a declaration like this? I mean, sure, if this were Catholicism and the Pope, but does Judaism even have a central religious authority? Not that I’ve ever learned. Some people must be mad that they don’t get to wear the cool hat and live in a big palace with lots of artwork. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/26 "2010-07-16T18:16:37Z")
I think the editorial is pretty badly incorrect, here. This isn’t really a new thing. The thing is, Orthodox Jews don’t believe that non-Orthodox conversions are legitimate. So, if you’re a convert to Conservative or Reform Judaism, Orthodox Jews don’t believe you really converted. Right now, Reform and Conservative converts are eligible to come to Israel under the Law of Return. Critics are concerned that if this law passes, that won’t happen anymore. But that’s not really what the bill says (the bill used to say that, but he amended it). The purpose of the bill is to change the conversion process inside Israel, to make it easier for non-Jews in Israel to convert to Orthodox Judaism, and to not recognize non-Orthodox conversions that happen within Israel. From this article from [The Jewish Week](http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/israel/israel%27s_conversion_bill_may_change) > [@](#): > > The bill’s author, Knesset Member David Rotem, told The Jewish Week that he too wants to preserve Jewish unity and is therefore willing to amend his bill in light of concerns raised by Conservative, Reform and Reconstructionist leaders he met with here in April. He said he is offering to add a clause that would “say the law will be considering only conversions being done in Israel.” > > “So American Jewry has nothing to worry about,” Rotem said. “Their conversions will be recognized and accepted.” > > The leader of the Conservative movement in Israel, Yizhar Hess, said he was unaware of Rotem’s offer but quickly dismissed it. > > “The suggestion is almost insulting to my view,” he said, explaining that it would be a step backwards for the Conservative and Reform movements in Israel whose conversions there have been upheld by Israel’s highest court. . . . > > “The members of parliament understand the problems we are facing in Israel,” he said, referring to the estimated 300,000 to 500,000 immigrants primarily from the former Soviet Union who have expressed a desire to convert to Judaism. “They do understand that it’s a ticking bomb.” > > Rotem stressed that these are the people for whom the bill was crafted because it is designed to speed up the conversion process. The bill would empower any rabbi who is or was on a district rabbinate in Israel — or was or is the chief rabbi of a city or town — to perform conversions for any Israeli, thus bypassing special conversion courts that had been established. The only way for the conversion to be voided would be if the rabbinical court that granted it found that fraud was involved. And rabbis who grant conversions would be empowered to also perform the marriages of converts. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/27 "2010-07-16T18:22:32Z")
No wonder our birth rates are down. From the piece quoted in the OP: > [@](#): > > To take the most salacious of a slew of examples, an American Haredi rabbi who had become one of the most powerful authorities on the question of conversion resigned from his organization in December after accusations that he solicited phone sex from a hopeful female convert. Not only does this involve an actual adult woman, but the best he can think of is phone sex? And this is the worst? I’m so ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/28 "2010-07-16T18:35:02Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Instead of the majority of Jews shrugging their shoulders and agreeing they aren’t Jews, I expect that they’ll just decide that these people don’t have authority over them. You think Jews _aren’t_ going to shrug their shoulders? Such a thing I can’t believe. There will be shrugging. Accepting these rabbis saying they are not Jews? Not so much. ---
**Author:** ![NinjaChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@NinjaChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinjaChick)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/29 "2010-07-16T18:45:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You think Jews _aren’t_ going to shrug their shoulders? Such a thing I can’t believe. There will be shrugging. Accepting these rabbis saying they are not Jews? Not so much. But isn’t that the way it already is, with the shrugging and accepting that they have different standards? At least reform Judaism generally accepts one parent and a Jewish upbringing as enough to make you an official Jew - so if you ask the rabbi at my parent’s synagogue, I’m Jewish, because my parents had a Jewish wedding, Dad’s Jewish by birth, and I was raised that way. If you ask an orthodox rabbi, he’d say no, I’m not Jewish unless I actually convert. And for the most part, the reform rabbis don’t seem to give a fuck what the orthodox say, because why would they? The orthodox have no real authority over anyone but themselves, no matter what they may think. I’d imagine anyone who wants to move to Israel and/or convert to orthodox Judaism already thinks this way, so who the hell cares? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/30 "2010-07-16T18:54:04Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Not only does this involve an actual adult woman, but the best he can think of is phone sex? And this is the worst? I’m so ashamed. Correction : that’s the worst he’s been \*caught \*for. No one’s found the videos of the gefilte furries party yet. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/31 "2010-07-16T19:05:20Z")
> [@NinjaChick](#): > > But isn’t that the way it already is, with the shrugging and accepting that they have different standards? Yes. That and arguing about it with relatives over dinner, or at least something to nosh on. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/32 "2010-07-16T19:07:47Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Admit it, you _really_ want to know how good bacon is, don’t you? They all know. ---
**Author:** ![Indyellen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/indyellen/32/4176_2.png) [@Indyellen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indyellen)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/33 "2010-07-16T20:52:09Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Correction : that’s the worst he’s been \*caught \*for. No one’s found the videos of the gefilte furries party yet. Thanks so much. That’s a visual I did NOT need. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/34 "2010-07-16T21:04:06Z")
So American jews are the new Samaritans. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/35 "2010-07-16T21:07:52Z")
Nobody wants furry gefilte. Now games of blowing the ram’s horn, searching for the afikomen, and the miracle of lasting 8 days? Mitzvahs, all of them. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/36 "2010-07-16T21:59:32Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > So American jews are the new Samaritans. :rolleyes: I repeat, the editorial is not accurate as to what the law does. The information in it is false. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/37 "2010-07-16T22:08:12Z")
I wondered why my pork belly futures just shot up in value… ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/38 "2010-07-16T22:26:23Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Actually that kind of did happen, except the Pope just had to threaten to excommunicate one very powerful man. He wouldn’t grant Henry VIII an annulment and voila! the Church of England was born! Can I kiss you for using the word annulment and not divorce? Will you bear my children? > [@yojimbo](#): > > Will a rabbi be soon nailing a letter to a door? > [@FriarTed](#): > > Ah phooey~ Now 1054, on the other hand- THAT was a Schism! > [@Lumpy](#): > > So American jews are the new Samaritans. :rolleyes: Three religious humour homer-runs > [@Bricker](#): > > About time. > > Secretly running the world can’t be for everyone, you know. The board meeting were a bitch to run even with broadband, too many people. I think the iPhone4 problem was the straw that broke the camel’s back. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/39 "2010-07-16T22:46:34Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > About time. > > Secretly running the world can’t be for everyone, you know. You’re one of the good ones. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893/40 "2010-07-16T22:49:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m so ashamed. The committee just called. You’re still in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congratulations-youre-no-longer-a-jew/546893.md?page=3)