# Congressman attacks student for daring to ask him a question **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227 "2010-06-15T00:25:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/181 "2010-06-15T16:27:09Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Not true. Many victims of domestic abuse don’t press charges for a variety of reasons–does it mean no crime happened? You are actually comparing this to domestic abuse?? Pray tell us how, over a long period of time, he intimidated them into not pressing charges? On a related note, does anyone know of a word that means “silly” and “stupid”? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/182 "2010-06-15T16:28:05Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Not true. Many victims of domestic abuse don’t press charges for a variety of reasons–does it mean no crime happened? Legally, yes it does. The cops also don’t need the participation of rhe victims to prosecute DV anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/183 "2010-06-15T16:30:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As far as actual criminal conviction, certainly. Are you under the impression that criminal conviction is the only thing at stake here? Not in the least. I am well aware how much this is worth to his opponent’s campaign, and what could happen if a connection is found between the “students” and said opponent. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/184 "2010-06-15T16:30:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As far as actual criminal conviction, certainly. Are you under the impression that criminal conviction is the only thing at stake here? Well criminality is what is being alleged all over the place. If we’re now admitting that there is no criminality, I’m happy to drop that issue and just talk about the likely political ramificatons. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/185 "2010-06-15T16:37:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Legally, yes it does. The cops also don’t need the participation of rhe victims to prosecute DV anymore. Even if no conviction happens, we can still judge that the person did something wrong, though, no? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I just wish we had some liberals who were sneaky and weaselly enough to fabricate these kids of scandals. They’re too idealistic and nice, though. It would never occur to them to provoke an old man into taking a swing at them, and getting it on camera. Times like this I wish Charlton Heston had sucker punched idealistic, nice Michael Moore at the end of Bowling for Columbine… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/186 "2010-06-15T16:37:58Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > As you well know, the state must meet higher standards of proof than individual citizens. > > I am not in law enforcement or justice. I can draw my own conclusions without regard to the state’s burden of proof. I say that the video clearly shows a crime. I have not said that the congressman should be tried in a court of law, nor have I said that he could be convicted. In other words, you’re admitting that your conclusion about what the video “clearly shows” is not actually supportable by the internet video alone. > [@](#): > > It’s interesting that you, **Diogenes the Cynic** , are quick to judge for some crimes (statutory rape), but not others (battery, assualt, etc). What would you be saying if that was your child being forcibly restrained? Would her rude actions leading up to that point blind you to the fact that she was then physically attacked? Those kids weren’t physically attacked and they weren’t girls. If my kids ever go around trying to troll politicians with video cameras and trying to goad their tagets into yelling at them or grabbing their arms, then I’m not going to think they’ve been outraged, no. By the way, I don’t see the alleged “victims” in this case complaining or alleging they’ve somehow been violated. I wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/187 "2010-06-15T16:44:15Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Even if no conviction happens, we can still judge that the person did something wrong, though, no? Not without something more than an edited video by anonymous “students”, no. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Times like this I wish Charlton Heston had sucker punched idealistic, nice Michael Moore at the end of Bowling for Columbine… I’m sure you do. How sad. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/188 "2010-06-15T16:46:22Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > In other words, you’re admitting that your conclusion about what the video “clearly shows” is not actually supportable by the internet video alone. I do not use the same burden of proof that the state must attain for a conviction. And I’m willing to bet that most other people do not either. But now that we know that you use that burden of proof. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/189 "2010-06-15T16:47:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well criminality is what is being alleged all over the place. If we’re now admitting that there is no criminality, I’m happy to drop that issue and just talk about the likely political ramificatons. I’m certainly not admitting that. It’s pretty obvious that there _is_ criminality. I’m saying there will be no criminal conviction, because the “college students” aren’t going to press charges and risk blowing their “cover”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/190 "2010-06-15T16:47:52Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Even if no conviction happens, we can still judge that the person did something wrong, though, no? Sure, but people are alleging criminality. That’s a separate thing. We can personally judge “right or wrong” even if there iS criminality. Personally, I don’t think Etheridge did anything wrong. He yelled at a couple of punks. > [@](#): > > Times like this I wish Charlton Heston had sucker punched idealistic, nice Michael Moore at the end of Bowling for Columbine… Why? What did Michael poor do to poor little Charlton? Ask him some questions? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/191 "2010-06-15T16:49:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m certainly not admitting that. It’s pretty obvious that there _is_ criminality. If it was so obvious, there would already have been an arrest. I’m also willing to bet that no prosecutor would ever be willing to charge a guy with battery for the actions on this video. There are too many REAL violent crimes going on out there. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/192 "2010-06-15T16:51:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Well criminality is what is being alleged all over the place. If we’re now admitting that there is no criminality, I’m happy to drop that issue and just talk about the likely political ramificatons. That’s nuts. There was probably a criminal act here, though for a number of reasons (evidence, de minimis, etc) it likely won’t be prosecuted. A great number of criminal acts aren’t - this doesn’t make the criminality dissapear into the ether, it just means there is not a case that can be prosecuted convincingly in court. There could still be a civil case. There could still be political ramifications, as you admit. But these do not exist because the criminal case vanishes - they are present simultaneously and the difficulty of proceeding with the criminal case does not necessarily affect these. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/193 "2010-06-15T16:52:38Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Personally, I don’t think Etheridge did anything wrong. He yelled at a couple of punks. …and grabbed one of them against his will. There, finished that for you. > [@](#): > > Why? What did Michael poor do to poor little Charlton? Ask him some questions? Do the voices in your head tell you that nobody will notice it when you’re this disingenuous? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/194 "2010-06-15T16:56:21Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > That’s nuts. There was probably a criminal act here, though for a number of reasons (evidence, de minimis, etc) it likely won’t be prosecuted. A great number of criminal acts aren’t - this doesn’t make the criminality dissapear into the ether, it just means there is not a case that can be prosecuted convincingly in court. > > There could still be a civil case. There could still be political ramifications, as you admit. But these do not exist because the criminal case vanishes - they are present simultaneously and the difficulty of proceeding with the criminal case does not necessarily affect these. There isn’t any criminal case. There are no criminal allegations. There is no criminal investigation. There is no criminal complaint. There is nothing. And a civil case? Are you serious? Seeking what damages. There is no crime here, and there’s is never going to be a crime here. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/195 "2010-06-15T16:58:36Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > By the way, I don’t see the alleged “victims” in this case complaining or alleging they’ve somehow been violated. I wonder why. But again, i really think you are conflating two separate issues here: the motivations of the questioners and the actions of the congressman. Even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that the guys asking the questions were complete douchebags who went into the whole thing desperately hoping to provoke some sort of excessive reaction, this doesn’t excuse the reaction itself. You can say all you like that he just yelled at them, but that’s not what happened. He grabbed the guy, and didn’t let go despite repeated requests. Yes, it’s possible that they guy could have gotten free on his own, and that he didn’t try very hard precisely because he was happy with the way things were going, but this again is a separate issue from the congressman grabbing and continuing to hold him. The fact that the guy should have been able to free himself doesn’t excuse the congressman grabbing him in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/196 "2010-06-15T16:58:39Z")
Enjoy your thread, **Valteron.** ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/197 "2010-06-15T16:59:21Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > …and grabbed one of them against his will. It wasn’t against his will, and in my personal opinion, it wasn’t “wrong.” I don’t even think it would have been wrong if he’d smashed the camera and given them both a thorough asskicking. Illegal, maybe, but not wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/198 "2010-06-15T17:27:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Fuck you Reminder: [QUOTE=Restricted language in the Pit] The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. * * * fuck you [/QUOTE] > **[Restricted language in the Pit](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858)** > > The following expressions should not be directed at other posters. cunt and variants, e.g., cuntlapper motherfucker cocksucker fuck you and variants, e.g., go fuck yourself, fuck off and die suck/lick my dick/cock and variants Expressions not... Please remember for next time. No warning issued. **Gfactor** Pit Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/199 "2010-06-15T17:32:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’m sure you do. > How sad. Er, that was a joke… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227/200 "2010-06-15T17:37:39Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Reminder: > > [Restricted language in the Pit - The BBQ Pit - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=508858) > > Please remember for next time. No warning issued. > > **Gfactor** > Pit Moderator Shit. Sorry. I forgot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-attacks-student-for-daring-to-ask-him-a-question/543227.md?page=11)