# Congressman demands voice vote...Factual Only **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [March 28, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472 "2020-03-28T00:28:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/1 "2020-03-28T00:28:17Z")
I watched today as a lone Congressman (Massie-R, Kentucky) attempted to force a recorded vote on the stimulus bill. You can watch it here: > **[Factbox: 'Mr. No': Meet the U.S. congressman who requested a formal vote to...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-massie-factbox/mr-no-meet-the-u-s-congressman-who-might-delay-the-coronavirus-bill-idUSKBN21E26K)** > > U.S. Representative Thomas Massie enraged President Donald Trump and leaders of Congress by trying to delay a planned Friday voice vote on a $2.2 trillion coronavirus economic rescue plan, drawing calls from the White House to throw him out of the... I get the procedural rule that a sufficient number of Congresspeople must arise to sustain a demand for a voice vote. But then he suggests the absence of a quorum. The chair then declares that a quorum is present and sustains the voice vote. How can he count to 218 that fast? Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/2 "2020-03-28T00:44:11Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Did I miss something? You missed the part where Massie had telegraphed his quorum call before the vote ever happened. They didn’t have to count _again_. They had already counted and knew who was present. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/3 "2020-03-28T01:34:17Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > You missed the part where Massie had telegraphed his quorum call before the vote ever happened. They didn’t have to count _again_. They had already counted and knew who was present. How does that work? Say AOC sent an email to the Acting Speaker saying that she would be there for the vote. How does the Speaker know she really is there without finding her in the crowd? Not suggesting anyone would lie, but they could have been delayed. Suggesting the absence of a quorum, at least in my mind, means that the roll call has to be read or otherwise contemporaneously determine there is a quorum there. What if Massie had appealed from the decision of the chair on his quorum ruling? Would that have been a roll call vote? ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/4 "2020-03-28T03:19:17Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Not suggesting anyone would lie, but they could have been delayed. Suggesting the absence of a quorum, at least in my mind, means that the roll call has to be read or otherwise contemporaneously determine there is a quorum there. It is not like they are unable to count people that physically showed up until the totally expected quorum call is made. Why does something like counting 5 minutes before and a quick check with staffers posted at the doors to make sure nobody left not seem accurate? ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/5 "2020-03-28T03:28:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Not suggesting anyone would lie, but they could have been delayed. Suggesting the absence of a quorum, at least in my mind, means that the roll call has to be read or otherwise contemporaneously determine there is a quorum there. House rule XX, clause 7: > [@](#): > > 1. (a) The Speaker may not entertain > a point of order that a quorum is not > present unless a question has been put > to a vote. > > … > > (c) A call of the House shall not be in > order after the previous question is ordered > unless the Speaker determines by > actual count that a quorum is not > present. So, there isn’t going to be a quorum call vote unless the Speaker says he didn’t count a quorum. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/6 "2020-03-28T04:09:38Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > House rule XX, clause 7: > So, there isn’t going to be a quorum call vote unless the Speaker says he didn’t count a quorum. Well, I couldn’t read that any more different than you did. The Speaker must do an “actual count” and determine that a quorum is present/not present. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/7 "2020-03-28T05:35:08Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Well, I couldn’t read that any more different than you did. The Speaker must do an “actual count” and determine that a quorum is present/not present. Yes, he must do an actual count. But he doesn’t have to do it out loud. And the quorum call cannot be taken unless the results of the count he took indicated that there was no quorum. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/8 "2020-03-28T11:30:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Well, I couldn’t read that any more different than you did. The Speaker must do an “actual count” and determine that a quorum is present/not present. The count was being done as members gathered in the chamber and the galleries (to maintain social distancing.) When the sufficient number arrived, a note was given to Pelosi to finish the procedure. [https://www.thehour.com/news/article/House-leaders-go-to-extraordinary-lengths-to-15162654.php](https://www.thehour.com/news/article/House-leaders-go-to-extraordinary-lengths-to-15162654.php) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/9 "2020-03-28T18:49:15Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > Yes, he must do an actual count. But he doesn’t have to do it out loud. And the quorum call cannot be taken unless the results of the count he took indicated that there was no quorum. Did you watch the video? There is no way he did a count, silently or otherwise. Also, are the results of a quorum call or a request for a recorded vote a ruling that can be appealed? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/10 "2020-03-28T19:43:08Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Did you watch the video? There is no way he did a count, silently or otherwise. > > Also, are the results of a quorum call or a request for a recorded vote a ruling that can be appealed? Dude, did you read the post I wrote several hours before I wrote this? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2020, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-demands-voice-vote-factual-only/850472/11 "2020-03-28T21:04:39Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Dude, did you read the post I wrote several hours before I wrote this? But the count is to be done when the quorum call is made, not before. People could have left.