# Congressman William Jefferson indicted for corruption (finally)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 5, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864 "2007-06-05T16:51:57Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/1 "2007-06-05T16:51:57Z")
In May 2006, Congressman William Jefferson (D-LA), in the course of a corruption investigation and pursuant to a valid search warrant, was subjected to [what is believed to be the first-ever FBI search of a Congressional office.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Jefferson#Corruption_investigation) (A separate search of Jefferson’s home turned up $90,000 cash in the freezer.) At the time there was controversy over whether such a search is constitutional, Congress being a coequal branch of government with the executive (see [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=372849) contemporary thread). At any rate, Congresscritters of both parties joined ranks against what they saw as executive encroachment on their turf.
Jefferson ran for re-election while he was widely known to be under investigation for corruption, and won.
Today Jefferson was [indicted.](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/05/washington/05jefferson.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin) He denies all charges.
1. Is he guilty, or is he from Louisiana? 😉
2. Will he resign? (Prior to being convicted, I mean.)
3. If he does, how will that affect the partisan balance of power in the House? (Probably not at all, as Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco, who would appoint his replacement, is a Democrat.)
4. Will this indictment revive public debate on the separation of powers and the propriety of the FBI’s actions in 2006?
---
### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/2 "2007-06-05T16:57:02Z")
This indictment poses a minor problem for Congress: Congressman Jefferson’s office was raide by the FBI. Quite apart from the casual racism evident, it is not clear if such evidence obtained is admissable.
However, I look forward to lawyer Trout’s (isn’t “Trout” a neat name for a lawyer)? defnese-particularly explaining where the $90,000 in the freezer camne from!
Jefferson is like a lot of louisian congressmen-he just got caught! :smack:
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/3 "2007-06-05T17:01:39Z")
I’ll admit I haven’t been following the case too closely, but everything I have heard would indicate Jefferson is guilty of some massive corruption. I’m guessing he’ll try to cut some kind of deal involving a plea bargain and resignation. No matter how it develops, it’s going to be a partisan issue. And while I feel the FBI had ample justification to search Jefferson’s office in this case, the Bush administration has repeatedly shown it’s capable of abusing any of the powers given to it so I feel any reluctance to expand those powers is justified.
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### Author:  [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/4 "2007-06-05T17:14:06Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c]
This indictment poses a minor problem for Congress: Congressman Jefferson’s office was raide by the FBI. Quite apart from the casual racism evident, it is not clear if such evidence obtained is admissable.
However, I look forward to lawyer Trout’s (isn’t “Trout” a neat name for a lawyer)? defnese-particularly explaining where the $90,000 in the freezer camne from!
Jefferson is like a lot of louisian congressmen-he just got caught! :smack:
[/QUOTE]
What “casual racism” is evident here?
On what legal basis do you believe the evidence is inadmissible? It was the fruit of a search made pursuant to a warrant, was it not?
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### Author:  [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/5 "2007-06-05T17:18:22Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker]
What “casual racism” is evident here?
On what legal basis do you believe the evidence is inadmissible? It was the fruit of a search made pursuant to a warrant, was it not?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, but they never would have requested the warrant if he wasn’t black 😉
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/6 "2007-06-05T17:19:19Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
No matter how it develops, it’s going to be a partisan issue.
[/QUOTE]
Will it? Last year it developed as a separation-of-powers issue on which Congress (Republican-controlled at the time) had a bipartisan consensus. Besides, as noted above, the outcome probably will not change the partisan makeup of the House.
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### Author:  [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/7 "2007-06-05T17:20:18Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo]
I’ll admit I haven’t been following the case too closely, but everything I have heard would indicate Jefferson is guilty of some massive corruption. I’m guessing he’ll try to cut some kind of deal involving a plea bargain and resignation. No matter how it develops, it’s going to be a partisan issue. And while I feel the FBI had ample justification to search Jefferson’s office in this case, the Bush administration has repeatedly shown it’s capable of abusing any of the powers given to it so I feel any reluctance to expand those powers is justified.
[/QUOTE]
If the Democrats had any sense they would kick him to the curb instantly - preferably a few months back as soon as it became clear that the charges were convincing and not some GOP smear tactic.
However, I see that the CBC and others are closing ranks rather than tossing his jail-deserving ass to the wolves.
The law is supposed to apply to everybody. I wish people in positions of power would remember that.
-Joe
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### Author:  [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/8 "2007-06-05T17:23:38Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
In May 2006, Congressman William Jefferson (D-LA), in the course of a corruption investigation and pursuant to a valid search warrant, was subjected to what is believed to be the first-ever FBI search of a Congressional office.
1. Is he guilty, or is he from Louisiana? 😉
2. Will he resign? (Prior to being convicted, I mean.)
3. If he does, how will that affect the partisan balance of power in the House? (Probably not at all, as Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco, who would appoint his replacement, is a Democrat.)
4. Will this indictment revive public debate on the separation of powers and the propriety of the FBI’s actions in 2006?
[/QUOTE]
5. Yes.
6. Yes.
7. It won’t.
8. Nope.
---
### Author:  [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/9 "2007-06-05T17:30:02Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
Yes, but they never would have requested the warrant if he wasn’t black 😉
[/QUOTE]
OK. I’ll ask. What evidence do you have that a white, or Asian Congressman for example, would have been treated differently?
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### Author:  [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/10 "2007-06-05T17:35:17Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
(Probably not at all, as Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco, who would appoint his replacement, is a Democrat.)
[/QUOTE]
Governors don’t appoint congressmen.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/11 "2007-06-05T17:35:34Z")
[url=]Wikipedia has a brief account of last year’s raid and ensuing controversy:
> [@](#):
>
> The May 20 raid of Jefferson’s office in Room 2113 of the Rayburn House Office Building set off a series of political events. Jefferson immediately challenged the action in federal court. House Speaker Dennis Hastert, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi issued “a rare joint statement demanding that the FBI return the documents and saying that Jefferson then should cooperate more fully with the investigation.”[16] “Many Republicans and Democrats contend that the unprecedented raid on a congressional office was unduly aggressive and may have breached the constitutional separation of powers between the executive and legislative branches of government that are meant to shelter lawmakers from administrative intimidation.”[17] Tensions escalated to the point where, according to AP, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, his deputy, Paul McNulty, and possibly FBI Director Robert Mueller “were said to be ready to quit if the Justice Department was asked to return the Jefferson documents…[while the] House was threatening to go after the Justice Department’s budget.”[18]
>
> On May 25, President Bush stepped in, taking the extraordinary step of “directing the Department of Justice to seal all the materials recovered from Congressman William Jefferson’s (Democrat-Louisiana) office for the next 45 days and not to allow access to anyone involved in the investigation.”[19]
>
> While members of the Senate seemed to take a more measured view of the raid,[20] on 30 May 2006, Representative James Sensenbrenner, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee began to hold hearings, called “Reckless Justice: Did the Saturday Night Raid of Congress Trample the Constitution?”, on the “profoundly disturbing” questions that he said the Justice Department’s actions raised.
>
> The FBI, in answering Jefferson’s complaint of the raid, attached an FBI agent’s affidavit claiming that the raid was necessary because while the FBI was searching his home in August, Jefferson tried to “surreptitiously remove” documents.[21]
>
> An ABC News poll released 1 June 2006 found 86% of Americans supported the FBI’s right to search congressional offices when they obtain a warrant.[22]
>
> On July 10, 2006, Chief Judge Thomas F. Hogan for the United States District Court for the District of Columbia, ruled the FBI raid on Jefferson’s office was legal,[23] rejecting his and the Bipartisan Legal Advisory Group of the United States House of Representatives claim that the search violated the Constitution’s Speech or Debate Clause, separation of powers principle and Fourth Amendment. Chief Judge Hogan, in a 28-page ruling, acknowledged that the “facts and questions of law presented here are indeed unprecedented,” but wrote that it is “well-established” that a Congressman is “generally bound to the operation of the criminal laws as are ordinary persons,” and the Speech or Debate Clause does not “make Members of Congress super-citizens, immune from criminal responsibility.'”[24] Hogan, in his conclusion, wrote:
>
> "The existing broad protections of the Speech or Debate Clause – absolute immunity from prosecution or suit for legislative acts and freedom from being ‘questioned’ about those acts (including privilege from the testimonial act of producing documents in response to a subpoena) – satisfy the fundamental purpose of the Clause to protect the independence of the legislature. The Court declines to extend those protections further, holding that the Speech or Debate Clause does not shield Members of Congress from the execution of valid search warrants. Congressman Jefferson’s interpretation of the Speech or Debate privilege would have the effect of converting every congressional office into a taxpayer-subsidized sanctuary for crime. Such a result is not supported by the Constitution or judicial precedent and will not be adopted here. See Williamson v. United States, 28 S. Ct. at 167 (‘[T]he laws of this country allow no place or employment as a sanctuary for crime.’) (quotation omitted).[25]
>
> However, later that same month, a three-judge appellate panel unanimously overruled Hogan’s decision and affirmed that the Department of Justice could not review Rep. Jefferson’s files until he had seen what files were taken and which of those pertained to his work as a legislator. The appellate court directed that Hogan, the judge who originally authorized the controversial search and seizure, should determine if Jefferson’s claims of legislative privilege extend to specific seized files that the lawmaker may cite.[26]
It does not say what determinations, if any, Judge Hogan made WRT those materials. The NYT article linked in the OP says only:
> [@](#):
>
> Litigation between Mr. Jefferson and the Justice Department over the materials seized in the search is now before a federal appeals court in the District of Columbia, and the issue of whether the search was constitutional remains unsettled. The Justice Department has been allowed access to some documents taken during the search, but other materials remain off limits to the government and were not used in the preparation of the indictment.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/12 "2007-06-05T17:38:59Z")
[QUOTE=Ravenman]
Governors don’t appoint congressmen.
[/QUOTE]
Who does? Is a special election required?
I know governors appoint **senators** – Senator Craig Thomas (R-WY) [just died,](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/05/AR2007060500823.html) and the governor (a Democrat) is to appoint a replacement. (This will not affect the balance in the Senate as Wyoming law requires the replacement to be of the deceased senator’s party; the governor will choose one from three names submitted by the state Republican Party.)
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### Author:  [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/13 "2007-06-05T17:47:24Z")
[QUOTE=spifflog]
OK. I’ll ask. What evidence do you have that a white, or Asian Congressman for example, would have been treated differently?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t, my post was a joking reference to a previous post that mentioned “casual racism” was at work here.
**Ralph124c** is the one you want to ask about this.
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### Author:  [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/14 "2007-06-05T17:57:31Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn]
I don’t, my post was a joking reference to a previous post that mentioned “casual racism” was at work here.
**Ralph124c** is the one you want to ask about this.
[/QUOTE]
By this, I meant that Congressman Jefferson was just making a few low-level deals, to make some money. This has been going on in Louisiana for a long time-witness Judge Leander Perez (and family). It’s a time-honored way of preparing for indictment, retiremen, etc., and readily accepted by Louisiana voters,
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/15 "2007-06-05T17:58:26Z")
C’mon, you guys! There’s surely all sorts of perfectly innocent reasons for a Congresscritter to keep $90,000 in his freezer. Sheesh! 😉
The only thing about this case that’s surprised me is that it’s taken so long for the indictment to come down. It’s been a year since Pelosi kicked him off of Ways and Means.
This case really doesn’t make much of a difference to anyone besides Jefferson and his constituents, IME. His corruption has nothing to do with other Democrats, and Pelosi’s kicking him off Ways and Means last year (over the incomprehensible (to me, anyway) [objections of the Congressional Black Caucus](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/04/AR2007060401664.html?hpid=topnews)) sent the message that the Democratic Party wasn’t sticking up for him, which was the right message to send.
Maybe he and [Scooter](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/05/AR2007060500150.html?hpid=topnews) will wind up sharing a cell. 🙂
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/16 "2007-06-05T18:05:27Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c]
By this, I meant that Congressman Jefferson was just making a few low-level deals, to make some money. This has been going on in Louisiana for a long time-witness Judge Leander Perez (and family). It’s a time-honored way of preparing for indictment, retiremen, etc., and readily accepted by Louisiana voters,
[/QUOTE]
Are you saying the FBI would not have investigated him if he were white?
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/17 "2007-06-05T18:05:54Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Who does? Is a special election required?
I know governors appoint **senators** – Senator Craig Thomas (R-WY) [just died,](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/05/AR2007060500823.html) and the governor (a Democrat) is to appoint a replacement. (This will not affect the balance in the Senate as Wyoming law requires the replacement to be of the deceased senator’s party; the governor will choose one from three names submitted by the state Republican Party.)
[/QUOTE]
I’m not sure if there are any general rules about it, but I am reasonably certain that when James Traficant (D-Ohio) was convicted on ten felony counts and the House shorlty afterwards voted almost unanimously to expel him; I don’t think the seat he was expelled from was occupied again until January, 2003 (when his term ended and the term of the Congressman who won his former seat in November, 2002 assumed the office.)
An interesting side note about Congressman Jefferson, a friend of mine who is a member of the Louisiana legal community told me awhile back when they first found the $90,000 in his freezer that back when Jefferson was a practicing lawyer he was nicknamed “Dollar Bill Jefferson” because he was famed for his greed (a notable accomplishment in the Louisiana legal community.)
Jefferson also commandeered a National Guard detachment in the wake of Hurricane Katrina to recover personal effects from his home.
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### Author:  [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/18 "2007-06-05T21:16:49Z")
Why would one put $90,000 in the freezer? Maybe I watch too many movies, but I thought that was the purpose of a nice suitcase. I also thought “cold hard cash” was one of those idiom things…
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/19 "2007-06-05T21:53:07Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow]
Why would one put $90,000 in the freezer? Maybe I watch too many movies, but I thought that was the purpose of a nice suitcase. I also thought “cold hard cash” was one of those idiom things…
[/QUOTE]
He had it distributed amongst frozen food boxes inside the freezer, he probably hoped that if this exact scenario came up, the FBI wouldn’t look there.
Or, to give him the benefit of the doubt, “he wanted it to be concealed so burglars wouldn’t find it.” However one has to seriously question why, if you’re wealthy enough to have $90,000 in cash in your home, you can’t install a good, concealed wall-safe if security was your primary concern.
In truth, there’s very few smart reasons to ever have that much cash on you. I don’t care if you’re Bill Gates, plastic is accepted just about everywhere and has the benefits of tons of security added in, if something happens to bills, they’re gone and you’re SOL. Even if you’re a criminal, you could probably find a way to get money into a safety deposit box that would shelter it from the prying eyes of law enforcement.
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### Author:  [@Shawn1767](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shawn1767)
#### Post date: [June 6, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congressman-william-jefferson-indicted-for-corruption-finally/406864/20 "2007-06-06T00:41:10Z")
I used to work in local politics here in New Orleans and my bosses were usually running against Bill Jefferson and his family and supporters in local elections. The plan was to win smaller elections against his supporters and eventually get him out of office by running a candidate against him. However, in the second to last election, my bosses decided to support him for some reason. That’s when I quit and found a new career. In the most recent election however, they did field a candidate against him: Karen Carter. I knew Karen and she seemed one of the more decent types, but right before the last election, Sheriff Harry Lee brought up some comments she made in Spike Lee’s “When the Levees Broke” and that torpedoed her chances, or so some say.
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