# Congresspeople sleeping in their offices **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122 "2018-03-06T16:49:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/1 "2018-03-06T16:49:33Z")
[‘It’s almost nasty’: Dems seek crackdown on sleeping in the Capitol](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/06/democrats-sleeping-capitol-crackdown-431969) > [@](#): > > A bloc of House Democrats is calling for an ethics investigation into the widespread practice of lawmakers sleeping in their offices, arguing it’s an abuse of taxpayer funds. > > More than two dozen members of the Congressional Black Caucus signed on to a letter obtained by POLITICO to Ethics Committee Chairwoman Susan Brooks (R-Ind.) and ranking member Ted Deutch (D-Fla.) asking for a probe into the “legality and propriety” of such conduct by members of Congress. > [@](#): > > The Democratic critics argue that the behavior is unethical and beneath the dignity of the office. They also say it is unfair to the hundreds of members who choose to live outside the Capitol paying Washington’s high living costs. > > “The House office buildings are ‘OFFICE’ buildings,” the letter continues. “[E]ach Member’s office within the building should be used to serve the people of the Member’s district, not as a personal residence. The House office buildings are not apartment complexes, homes or any other kind of residence.” > > The Democrats also say lawmakers sleeping in their offices could create a hostile work environment, particularly if staffers are tasked with cleaning up members’ sleeping arrangements or interacting with lawmakers in inappropriate sleeping attire. However, even in the #MeToo era, there’s been no indication that sleeping in the office has led to any untoward behavior or harassment. This seems to me to be one of the most idiotic “ethics” issues I can recall, and it’s hard to imagine that it’s not contrived for some reason or other. (Possibly there’s some subtext to this that’s not clearly apparent.) “nethical and beneath the dignity of the office” are too vague to address. “nfair to the hundreds of members who choose to live outside the Capitol” seems ridiculous - it’s not unfair if the others had the same choice but chose differently. The idea that it’s taxable compensation also seems bogus, as long as it’s primarily an office (perhaps even if it’s not). The sex harassment objection seems extremely speculative at best. I think one plus of the practice is that it helps poorer people to get elected to congress, and avoids favoring those wealthy enough to afford two apartments with no great sacrifice. (Though it may be a PR gimmick in some cases.) But perhaps others disagree. Anyone thinks there’s a genuine ethics issue here? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaptics](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Sinaptics](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaptics)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/2 "2018-03-06T16:56:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [‘It’s almost nasty’: Dems seek crackdown on sleeping in the Capitol](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/06/democrats-sleeping-capitol-crackdown-431969)This seems to me to be one of the most idiotic “ethics” issues I can recall, and it’s hard to imagine that it’s not contrived for some reason or other. (Possibly there’s some subtext to this that’s not clearly apparent.) > > “nethical and beneath the dignity of the office” are too vague to address. “nfair to the hundreds of members who choose to live outside the Capitol” seems ridiculous - it’s not unfair if the others had the same choice but chose differently. The idea that it’s taxable compensation also seems bogus, as long as it’s primarily an office (perhaps even if it’s not). The sex harassment objection seems extremely speculative at best. > > I think one plus of the practice is that it helps poorer people to get elected to congress, and avoids favoring those wealthy enough to afford two apartments with no great sacrifice. (Though it may be a PR gimmick in some cases.) > > But perhaps others disagree. Anyone thinks there’s a genuine ethics issue here? I agree. This seems like a dumb hill to die on. On another note, if they put the congress critters in a dorm with video cameras, we could have the most literal version of Big Brother ever 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/3 "2018-03-06T16:58:35Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > [‘It’s almost nasty’: Dems seek crackdown on sleeping in the Capitol](https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/06/democrats-sleeping-capitol-crackdown-431969)This seems to me to be one of the most idiotic “ethics” issues I can recall, and it’s hard to imagine that it’s not contrived for some reason or other. (Possibly there’s some subtext to this that’s not clearly apparent.) > > “nethical and beneath the dignity of the office” are too vague to address. “nfair to the hundreds of members who choose to live outside the Capitol” seems ridiculous - it’s not unfair if the others had the same choice but chose differently. The idea that it’s taxable compensation also seems bogus, as long as it’s primarily an office (perhaps even if it’s not). The sex harassment objection seems extremely speculative at best. > > I think one plus of the practice is that it helps poorer people to get elected to congress, and avoids favoring those wealthy enough to afford two apartments with no great sacrifice. (Though it may be a PR gimmick in some cases.) > > But perhaps others disagree. Anyone thinks there’s a genuine ethics issue here? Two things seem to be getting blurred here. There’s sleeping in your office, which I’ve done, and I can’t really see any objection to. Then there’s living in your office and having no other DC-area residence. While I’m not sure I’d characterize it as an ‘ethics’ issue, it’s not something I’d want congressmen doing. Is the complaint really about the latter, and the language sloppy? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/4 "2018-03-06T17:24:42Z")
Are they doing so while drawing a housing allowance perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/5 "2018-03-06T17:29:29Z")
I consider this a big “meh”. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/6 "2018-03-06T17:32:21Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Two things seem to be getting blurred here. There’s sleeping in your office, which I’ve done, and I can’t really see any objection to. Then there’s living in your office and having no other DC-area residence. While I’m not sure I’d characterize it as an ‘ethics’ issue, it’s not something I’d want congressmen doing. Is the complaint really about the latter, and the language sloppy? Fotheringay-Phipps is defending the latter it seems to me since he said “it helps poorer people to get elected”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/7 "2018-03-06T17:36:23Z")
I think it is unseemly to have Federal offices also serve as personal residences. I wouldn’t say that I consider it to be a major issue, or a serious ethical problem. I just think taxpayers should pay for their residences. They get a salary for that sort of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/8 "2018-03-06T17:39:46Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think it is unseemly to have Federal offices also serve as personal residences. That’s exactly how I feel about it. It’s not a travesty, but it’s just sorta lame. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/9 "2018-03-06T17:55:59Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I think it is unseemly to have Federal offices also serve as personal residences. I wouldn’t say that I consider it to be a major issue, or a serious ethical problem. I just think taxpayers should pay for their residences. They get a salary for that sort of stuff. Congressional salaries are $174K per year. That’s pathetic. I mean, not pathetic compared to a guy working as an insurance adjuster or such. But pathetic for the level of skill and responsibilities of that office. Having to rent a second apartment in a high rent area like DC, is not a simple thing for a guy making $174K a year. Again, you can scrape by of course, but it would cut into your lifestyle significantly. (Unless you were independently wealthy or corrupt.) ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/10 "2018-03-06T18:00:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Congressional salaries are $174K per year. That’s pathetic. > > I mean, not pathetic compared to a guy working as an insurance adjuster or such. But pathetic for the level of skill and responsibilities of that office. > > Having to rent a second apartment in a high rent area like DC, is not a simple thing for a guy making $174K a year. Again, you can scrape by of course, but it would cut into your lifestyle significantly. (Unless you were independently wealthy or corrupt.) I’m _so_ sorry that these people were drafted to run for the office and couldn’t do a simple financial analysis to see if they could afford it. _plays tiny violin_ ETA:[Wealth of Congress](https://www.rollcall.com/wealth-of-congress) ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/11 "2018-03-06T18:03:01Z")
In many places it would be a fire code violation to be living in an office. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/12 "2018-03-06T18:11:17Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Congressional salaries are $174K per year. That’s pathetic. > > I mean, not pathetic compared to a guy working as an insurance adjuster or such. But pathetic for the level of skill and responsibilities of that office. > > Having to rent a second apartment in a high rent area like DC, is not a simple thing for a guy making $174K a year. Again, you can scrape by of course, but it would cut into your lifestyle significantly. (Unless you were independently wealthy or corrupt.) You know who makes less than $174K? Congressional staffers. Do staffers get to live rent free in the congressional office building? What about other government employees that have high levels of skills and responsibilities? Are State Department or Department of Defense higher ups living rent free in DC? Stephen Miller makes about the same as a member of congress. Free housing? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/13 "2018-03-06T18:16:54Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > You know who makes less than $174K? Congressional staffers. Do staffers get to live rent free in the congressional office building? What about other government employees that have high levels of skills and responsibilities? Are State Department or Department of Defense higher ups living rent free in DC? Stephen Miller makes about the same as a member of congress. Free housing? One big difference is that there’s no requirement that these various other staffers and employees maintain a residence in a congressional district in some other part of the country, and most of them would just maintain one DC residence and that’s it. The congresspeople need to maintain a permanent residence elsewhere but need to be in DC most of the time, hence the issue. But FWIW, I’m not aware of any reason these people can’t also sleep in their offices, and perhaps some of them do too. Of course, not everyone wants to sleep in an office. But that’s a matter of personal choice and priorities. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/14 "2018-03-06T18:18:09Z")
For once I agree with F-P. Housing in DC is outrageous. If some of them choose to sleep in their offices rather than fork over ridiculous rent, why not? They save some bucks, aren’t adding to the traffic, and are reducing the housing demand in DC and putting downward pressure on rents by so doing. I think its win-win-win. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/15 "2018-03-06T18:22:33Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > For once I agree with F-P. Housing in DC is outrageous. If some of them choose to sleep in their offices rather than fork over ridiculous rent, why not? They save some bucks, aren’t adding to the traffic, and are reducing the housing demand in DC and putting downward pressure on rents by so doing. I think its win-win-win. Yeah, I opened the article fully expecting to find some key piece of information the OP left out. Mark that one up to my preconceived notions–there’s nothing in the article that makes me think this is anything more than petulant snippy bullshit on the part of the complainers. Show me a real problem–an actual issue with sanitation, actual workers complaining about mistreatment, anything–and I’ll consider the complaint. Short of that? Man, screw that noise. ETA: One possible reason for this complaint–is it possible that Tea Partiers have been arguing against increasing housing allowances for Congressfolk, on the grounds that they sleep in their offices, so other people can, too? If that’s going on, this makes a little more sense; but I’m not seeing evidence of it, except mayyyyybe for this bit: > [@](#): > > Some CBC members also suggested that if the committee gives a formal green light to the practice, the House should provide lawmakers a per diem to help with living expenses, as many state legislatures do across the country, or a cost-of-living salary increase. > > “We think what’s good for the goose is good for the gander,” Watson Coleman said. “If you’re giving members an opportunity to live here rent-free using all the facilities, then perhaps those who are forced to live outside of the campus should have some consideration as well.” ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/16 "2018-03-06T18:23:49Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I’m _so_ sorry that these people were drafted to run for the office and couldn’t do a simple financial analysis to see if they could afford it. > _plays tiny violin_ > ETA:[Wealth of Congress](https://www.rollcall.com/wealth-of-congress) I think you missed the point. It’s undesirable for us as a society for potentially good people to do the simple financial analysis and then decide not to run and serve for that reason. Then the only people you get in office are the already wealthy, or those with a plan to cash in after serving a few terms (or worse, while they’re serving a few terms.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/17 "2018-03-06T18:24:55Z")
Yeah, I’d rather they do that than take enough bribes to be able to afford DC rent. Just put your stuff away before visitors show up, please. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/18 "2018-03-06T18:27:46Z")
I can see that there is a point where it would be a problem: does each congressional office have it’s own restroom? I assume they are showering at the gym. My impression was it was just 1-2 people that do this, but if it’s like 50, I can see that being a weird strain: bathroom and gym shower facilities are not made to accommodate those sorts of numbers and I would imagine there would be effects. I’m envisioning 10 guys all trying to shave and brush their teeth in an office building restroom, and I can see that it would be a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/19 "2018-03-06T18:32:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > ETA: One possible reason for this complaint–is it possible that Tea Partiers have been arguing against increasing housing allowances for Congressfolk, on the grounds that they sleep in their offices, so other people can, too? If that’s going on, this makes a little more sense; but I’m not seeing evidence of it, except mayyyyybe for this bit: As I understand it, there is no housing allowance for members of congress. (See, [here](https://www.senate.gov/CRSpubs/9c14ec69-c4e4-4bd8-8953-f73daa1640e4.pdf), from the Congressional Research Service: “they are not eligible for housing or per diem allowances for expenses incurred in Washington, DC.”). In fact, Jason Chaffetz (“[tea party before the tea party](http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/la-na-jason-chaffetz-five-things-20151007-story.html)”) was well-known for [calling for a housing allowance for members of congress.](http://thehill.com/homenews/house/339570-chaffetz-calls-for-2500-legislator-housing-stipend) ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2018, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/20 "2018-03-06T18:35:57Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yeah, I’d rather they do that than take enough bribes to be able to afford DC rent. Just put your stuff away before visitors show up, please. I guess I would like a third choice. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122.md?page=2)