# Congresspeople sleeping in their offices **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122 "2018-03-06T16:49:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/41 "2018-03-07T02:47:32Z")
The article suggests pretty strongly that the motivation for living in one’s office, and the opposition thereto, are simply partisan in nature. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/42 "2018-03-07T03:14:46Z")
Given that the cost of living varies so greatly across the country there are a variety of experiences for Members of Congress. Legislators representing districts in an urban area such as San Francisco or New York City may have substantially greater living expenses in their home districts than colleagues from rural Missouri or Georgia. Simply taking the point of view that $174K/2 = $87K and a legislator “should” be able to have a home in their district on $87K is too simplistic. After all, legislators are real people and many have mortgages to pay and families and young children to support and $87K doesn’t go nearly as far in some places. We \*could \*propose changing Congressional salaries to vary depending upon cost of living measures in the home district but such a proposal would be doomed from the outset. If instead a way to make it work is that some legislators sleep in their DC offices I think that is a much less controversial way to deal with the cost of living issue. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/43 "2018-03-07T03:21:52Z")
> [@](#): > > After all, legislators are real people and many have mortgages to pay and families and young children to support and $87K doesn’t go nearly as far in some places. And yet, the majority of their constituents manage it somehow. It occurs to me that maybe it’s not the rich who can afford to live on a congressional salary. Maybe it’s only the poor who can afford it. It is certainly possible to live quite comfortably, anywhere in the nation, on a congressional salary, and maybe it’s the people who know how to make that happen that are the kind of people we want holding the levers of power. And while there are some rich people who know how to make ends meet, it’s a lot harder to learn if you never need to. ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/44 "2018-03-07T03:39:55Z")
So if I am a reasonably successful professional pulling in $174K ($14500 per month, before taxes) in San Francisco, and have a mortgage on a $1.5 million home (the median) and paying a monthly mortgage of about $7K then it should be no problem to just add another couple thousand for DC rent to my living expenses if I run for Congress and am elected? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/45 "2018-03-07T03:50:46Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > So if I am a reasonably successful professional pulling in **$174K** ($14500 per month, before taxes) in San Francisco, and have a mortgage on a **$1.5 million home** (the median) and paying a monthly mortgage of about $7K then it should be no problem to just add another couple thousand for DC rent to my living expenses if I run for Congress and am elected? From Investopedia. > [@](#): > > Generally speaking, most prospective homeowners can afford to finance a property that costs between **2 and 2.5 times their gross income.** Under this formula, a person earning $100,000 per year can afford a mortgage of $200,000 to $250,000. But this calculation is only a general guideline. 174K x 2.5= 435K. This is someone we want dealing with the nation’s budget? ---
**Author:** ![Iggy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iggy/32/3364_2.png) [@Iggy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Iggy)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/46 "2018-03-07T03:55:21Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > From Investopedia. > 174K x 2.5= 435K. This is someone we want dealing with the nation’s budget? While nice, that is entirely unrealistic in the San Fran area. So instead we should effectively shut out candidates who are not wealthy? I would rather that not be the case. And if having Members of Congress sleep in their offices is one way that we can have a greater cross section of Americans find running for Congress feasible them I think it is a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/47 "2018-03-07T04:09:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I find it hard to feel sorry for them. Especially when it is within their power to start fixing the underlying issues that make rent so expensive in Washington DC (i.e. change the zoning laws which are woefully out of date). I don’t feel sorry for them, but I also don’t give a wet fart about where they sleep. I do give a wet fart about not burdening the ethics committee with this sort of pissant complaint when there is so much real corruption saturating congress. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/48 "2018-03-07T04:32:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I don’t feel sorry for them, but I also don’t give a wet fart about where they sleep. I do give a wet fart about not burdening the ethics committee with this sort of pissant complaint when there is so much real corruption saturating congress. They don’t seem all that burdened. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/49 "2018-03-07T04:50:47Z")
While I assume that people are sometimes going to hook up, have affairs, proposition their staff, harass their staff, etc. regardless of whether they’re living in their office or not, and you’re never going to get that down to zero, I think it’s probably reasonable to assume that there would be some small reduction in people thinking about trying to push their staff into their bed, if the bed wasn’t right there. The fact that this was one of the first things mentioned when the TimesUp movement made its way onto Capital Hill, but is now being repackaged as a sanitation matter leads me to believe that it is a real concern (e.g., because they’ve caught themselves thinking about how close the bed is), but they don’t want to admit it so they’re looking for an alternate excuse. Ultimately, it depends on what is more important, efficiency and cost reduction, or reducing sexual harassment. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/50 "2018-03-07T05:46:13Z")
I mean are we talking about a pull out couch that joe senator uses occasionaly when hes working at 2 am and has to get back by 6 or 7 ? … or maybe using when they do those all night vote things and cant go home ? Or queen size beds with end stands and such ? ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/51 "2018-03-07T06:16:29Z")
> [@stpauler](#): > > Simple solution, when Trump’s DC hotel has been given up for violating the emoluments clause. we house all congressional members there with their rooms taken out of their standard pay. Man, that’d be falling for the coup plans hook, line and sinker. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/52 "2018-03-07T06:26:58Z")
While the letter talks about Congressman who sleep in their office, they use the word ‘reside’ in the more forceful complaints. They aren’t complaining about the occasional all-nighter. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/53 "2018-03-07T09:00:21Z")
Well this thread went badly off the rails. While I understand completely that preventing congresspeople from sleeping in their offices is kind of a silly rule… Uh… Guys… Meaning no offense, but if you can’t figure out a way to make things work on a $174k salary, _you should not hold as much power as any individual in congress holds_, because you are clearly dearly out of touch of the reality of the vast majority of your constituents, and you are clearly _bad at money_. The average median household income (not individual, _household_) is [around $75k](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#Median_inflation-adjusted_(%22real%22)_household_income). The average _individual_ income for people 25-64 working full-time is [$39,509](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States#By_ethnicity_and_origin). So you need an additional residence? Well, okay, first off you don’t. Nothing obligates you to actually own property in your home district, or for that matter to have any kind of residence in your home district. It’s an _option_. But let’s say that you put a full half of your congressional salary towards property in DC. Even then, half of $174k is $87k, which is still _well_ above the median household income, even for DC. $174,000 is a lot of money to get every year. Can we _please_ not pretend it isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/54 "2018-03-07T11:46:28Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > While I assume that people are sometimes going to hook up, have affairs, proposition their staff, harass their staff, etc. regardless of whether they’re living in their office or not, and you’re never going to get that down to zero, I think it’s probably reasonable to assume that there would be some small reduction in people thinking about trying to push their staff into their bed, if the bed wasn’t right there. The fact that this was one of the first things mentioned when the TimesUp movement made its way onto Capital Hill, but is now being repackaged as a sanitation matter leads me to believe that it is a real concern (e.g., because they’ve caught themselves thinking about how close the bed is), but they don’t want to admit it so they’re looking for an alternate excuse. > > Ultimately, it depends on what is more important, efficiency and cost reduction, or reducing sexual harassment. This is a reasonable concern. Honest question: is there any evidence at all that the folks sleeping in their offices are using this arrangement to harass/assault anyone? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/55 "2018-03-07T12:11:13Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well, okay, first off you don’t. Nothing obligates you to actually own property in your home district, or for that matter to have any kind of residence in your home district. You do need to have residence in the state you’re representing, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/56 "2018-03-07T12:30:42Z")
And of course, let’s not assume that housing is the _only_ cost of living. Yes, you have to pay for two dwellings, but you don’t have to pay twice as much for food, or twice as much for your kids’ college tuition, or twice as much for whatever your luxuries of choice are. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/57 "2018-03-07T12:35:36Z")
Seriously, why should we care? If they were earning a million bucks a year and a housing stipend and bespoke toilet paper, why should I care that they’re sleeping on the couch in their office? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/58 "2018-03-07T12:39:00Z")
> [@nightshadea](#): > > I mean are we talking about a pull out couch that joe senator uses occasionaly when hes working at 2 am and has to get back by 6 or 7 ? … or maybe using when they do those all night vote things and cant go home ? > Or queen size beds with end stands and such ? For quite a while, when somebody got elected to Congress, they and their family tended to move to DC and either buy or rent a place there. Starting in the 90s, that changed. Part of it was economic…housing in DC is expensive. Part of it was practical…a lot of congressional spouses had their own careers and wanted to keep working, Congress members didn’t want to pull their kids out of school and, and so on. Part of it was political. In the early '90s, there had been a bunch of Congressional scandals involving abuse of power, most notably the House banking scandal, where the House bank didn’t go after congress members who overdrew their accounts, and the Post Office scandal, where some congressional leaders embezzled from the House Post Office and supply store. One of the big reasons the Republicans came to power in 1995 was because they were able to argue that Congress had become an old boys club, no longer in touch with their constituants. Keeping your family home became a way of saying “I’m still one of you. I’m not going to let myself be corrupted.” But, since their families were home, DC is expensive, and modern Congressmembers no longer do a lot of entertaining, some just started living in their office. Put a couch that has a foldout bed, and a tv in there, the House gym has showers, and most offices already put in a fridge and microwave for the staff during the day, and you know, it’s spartan, but not much worse than a college dorm. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/59 "2018-03-07T12:40:21Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Well, okay, first off you don’t. Nothing obligates you to actually own property in your home district, or for that matter to have any kind of residence in your home district. It’s an _option_. But let’s say that you put a full half of your congressional salary towards property in DC. Even then, half of $174k is $87k, which is still _well_ above the median household income, even for DC. > > $174,000 is a lot of money to get every year. Can we _please_ not pretend it isn’t? It is, and it isn’t. I think a Congressmen should live in their district. And Washington is an expensive city. Two rents, two utilities bills, etc. If my district is in rural Alabama, and my house is only worth $100k (with $80k worth of mortgage, then the $174k is fine. If my district is in New York City, and my house is $800k, then the $174k isn’t much. My only issue is that at $174k, there are people who won’t run for Congress at that, and then it becomes a rich persons only game. And I don’t want that, and neither do you. A friend of mine is a Hill staffer, and she swears this is in effort to get Congressional members a DC housing allowance. Don’t know if it’s true of not, but she’s firm in her belief. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/60 "2018-03-07T13:00:45Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > It is, and it isn’t. > > I think a Congressmen should live in their district. And Washington is an expensive city. Two rents, two utilities bills, etc. If my district is in rural Alabama, and my house is only worth $100k (with $80k worth of mortgage, then the $174k is fine. If my district is in New York City, and my house is $800k, then the $174k isn’t much. …If your district is in New York City, and your primary salary alone is _more than double what the average New York City household makes_, you should be able to make ends meet somehow. Maybe you shouldn’t have bought a home worth five times your salary - especially if you knew you’d need aonther residency. Maybe you should live according to your means - especially when “your means” happens to be more money than I ever expect to be making in my life, and way more than double the national average! I understand what you’re saying, but it just pisses me off. We don’t need to be making apologies for people so bad at budgeting their money that they can earn nearly 200 grand a year and still complain about not making ends meet. I don’t care where you live in the world - if you make $174,000USD per year, _you are rich_, and any money woes you have are very likely to be self-inflicted. Find a smaller home. Rent. Accept a longer commute. Do _something_ to make do with way, _way_ more money than most Americans will ever make! > [@](#): > > My only issue is that at $174k, there are people who won’t run for Congress at that, and then it becomes a rich persons only game. And I don’t want that, and neither do you. I mean… It kind of already is? And I don’t see how expanding what we pay congresspeople (it’s $174k before pointing out the _massive_ perks that come with the job and the later opportunity to take advantage of “revolving door” positions or any of the other shady crap that might come withh being incredibly politically powerful) will solve the problem that people who aren’t already rich have a really hard time raising the money needed to run for congress. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122.md?page=4)