# Congresspeople sleeping in their offices **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 6, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122 "2018-03-06T16:49:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/101 "2018-03-07T19:11:31Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Oil workers are given a barracks to sleep in. Stewardesses have to pay for crash pads where as many as 30 other flight staff stay and they do so at their own expense (some airlines may pay a housing allowance). Point is not everyone who lives away from home for work is provided with cushy living arrangements at the employer’s expense. Oil workers given a place to sleep IS housing at the employer’s expense. I’ll admit I don’t know about crash pads. Do flight attendants maintain a primary residence and then receive no housing allowance while in some other city? My airline pilot friend told me that he gets money for a hotel when he’s away from home. > [@](#): > > I wish (bolding mine): I believe the only difference between a member of Congress’ FERS is a slight difference the rate at which the pension is calculated. To reach 80% of their salary, by my back of the envelope math, that member would have to serve in Congress for 46 years. I don’t know what Investopedia is, but I think based on that article they seem not as interested in facts as they are in scoring a point on politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/102 "2018-03-07T19:12:26Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > So you’d like your average Congressman/woman to be on par with the local oil platform worker and long haul trucker? Good hard working people I’m sure, but that’s about the overall quality your looking for?? I am hard pressed to call anyone in congress “quality people”. Seriously. There is absolutely nothing about the job that ensures we only get the best quality people taking it. Far from it and that holds for the right and left. Paying them 10x more would not change that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/103 "2018-03-07T19:27:12Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Oil workers given a place to sleep IS housing at the employer’s expense. I’ll admit I don’t know about crash pads. Do flight attendants maintain a primary residence and then receive no housing allowance while in some other city? My airline pilot friend told me that he gets money for a hotel when he’s away from home. If the government wants to provide a 550 bed barracks for members of congress I’d be for it. Crashpads: > [@](#): > > “Crash pads are kind of like dorms, but worse,” says Abbie Unger, who formerly worked as a flight attendant with three major airlines. “I used to stay at a crash pad in Newark, where 37 people lived in one house. I slept in the attic, which was converted to hold 10 single beds.” > > Flight attendants likely don’t know WHO they’re sleeping next to. > > In crash pads, flight attendants rent either a “cold bed” (aka a bed with their own sheets on it, where no one else is allowed to sleep) or a “hot bed” (aka a “first-come, first-serve” bed). In the case of a “hot bed” arrangement, flight attendants keep their sheets in a cubby and find an empty bed when they arrive. > > SOURCE: [We Found Out Where Flight Attendants Live Between Flights | HuffPost Life](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/where-flight-attendants-live-between-flying-shifts_us_5548f6b5e4b03f42d6c0cdd5) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/104 "2018-03-07T19:49:05Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If the government wants to provide a 550 bed barracks for members of congress I’d be for it. I have some suggestions for which neighborhood it should be in. > [@](#): > > Crashpads: Thanks, but I still am not clear what role crash pads play. See for example in the article, “Flight attendants may sleep in secret hideaways during long flights, and they usually stay in hotels during multi-day trips. But what happens between their shifts is truly fascinating.” Do flight attendants have a home/apartment in one city, stay in hotels during work trips, and then stay in crash pads when they, uh, aren’t at home and aren’t on work travel? Or, do they stay in hotels while on work travel, and the crash pads ARE their homes, even though they aren’t luxury apartments? By the latter definition, an awful lot of young DC government workers live in a slight variation of these crash pads. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/105 "2018-03-07T19:58:19Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > So you’d like your average Congressman/woman to be on par with the local oil platform worker and long haul trucker? Good hard working people I’m sure, but that’s about the overall quality your looking for?? That would be a step up for many of them. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/106 "2018-03-07T20:12:12Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > "Look instead at what the average college graduate with more than one degree who wears a suit and tie to work and is very good at public speaking makes. I’ll bet the median is above $200K. " I assume “very good at public speaking” was intended to reflect some better-than-average talent. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Median salary for an attorney in the US is about [$81,500/year.](https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2F_Lawyer/Salary) So, half make more, half make less. Experience on moderately affects salary. I think those numbers are bogus. [US News](https://money.usnews.com/careers/best-jobs/lawyer/salary) has some very different numbers that are more in line with reality, IME. (I’m very well acquainted with quite a lot of lawyers IRL (friends, relatives etc.), and I’d be very surprised if a single one of them is making less than $150K.) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/107 "2018-03-07T20:28:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This is a reasonable concern. Honest question: is there any evidence at all that the folks sleeping in their offices are using this arrangement to harass/assault anyone? I’m not comfortable with the “using to” summation of my point. There are more ways to be creepy and to harass someone than by pushing them down onto a bed. Usually one might leer or proposition or fondle a person rather than go straight to the bed step of unwanted sexual advances. The question isn’t whether the bed is being used for sex or in unwanted sexual advances. It’s whether its presence puts people into a state of mind that makes them misbehave in a more general sense. But, ignoring that, I would assume that there is not. You would need to anonymously survey the people working in Congress (both the legislators and their staff) to ask them things like “Have you thought about having sex with a person you work with in the last 30 days?” and “Have you experienced unwanted attention or been propositioned for sexual activities in the last 30 days?” and then run a control group where you ask everyone to stop living in their offices for several months, and rerun those same surveys. I find it unlikely that such a study has taken place. But, presumably, the people involved know whether or not they’ve ever put 2 and 2 together, when looking at someone, and thought to themselves that the bed is just _right there_. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/108 "2018-03-07T21:07:37Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’m not comfortable with the “using to” summation of my point. There are more ways to be creepy and to harass someone than by pushing them down onto a bed. Usually one might leer or proposition or fondle a person rather than go straight to the bed step of unwanted sexual advances. The question isn’t whether the bed is being used for sex or in unwanted sexual advances. It’s whether its presence puts people into a state of mind that makes them misbehave in a more general sense. > > But, ignoring that, I would assume that there is not. If there’s no evidence, not even correlative, of a problem, I’m not convinced there’s a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/109 "2018-03-07T21:13:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If there’s no evidence, not even correlative, of a problem, I’m not convinced there’s a problem. ISTM if a congressman (or woman) wanted to get up to some hanky-panky, particularly with someone they should not be with, they won’t be doing it in their office. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/110 "2018-03-07T21:14:38Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > ISTM if a congressman (or woman) wanted to get up to some hanky-panky, particularly with someone they should not be with, they won’t be doing it in their office. Totally, because that would be mind-bogglingly stupid, and if there’s one phrase that doesn’t describe politicians having affairs, it’s mind-bogglingly stupid. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/111 "2018-03-07T21:21:44Z")
I think [Wilbur Mills](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilbur_Mills) set the still-unbeaten standard for stupid. > [@](#): > > Mills was involved in a traffic incident in Washington, DC at 2 a.m. on October 9, 1974. His car was stopped by U.S. Park Police late at night because the driver had not turned on the lights. Mills was intoxicated, and his face was injured from a scuffle with Annabelle Battistella, better known as Fanne Foxe, a stripper from Argentina. When police approached the car, Foxe leapt from the car and jumped into the nearby Tidal Basin in an attempt to escape. She was taken to St. Elizabeths Mental Hospital for treatment. > > Despite the scandal, Mills was re-elected to Congress in November 1974 in a heavily Democratic year with nearly 60% of the vote, defeating Republican Judy Petty. On November 30, 1974, Mills, seemingly drunk, was accompanied by Fanne Foxe’s husband onstage at The Pilgrim Theatre in Boston, a burlesque house where Foxe was performing. He held a press conference from Foxe’s dressing room. Soon after this second public incident, Mills stepped down from his chairmanship of the Ways and Means Committee, acknowledged his alcoholism, joined Alcoholics Anonymous, and checked himself into the Palm Beach Institute in West Palm Beach, Florida. > > Mills did not run for re-election in 1976 and was succeeded by Democrat Jim Guy Tucker. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/112 "2018-03-07T21:24:32Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > ISTM if a congressman (or woman) wanted to get up to some hanky-panky, particularly with someone they should not be with, they won’t be doing it in their office. Actually, it did become an issue in the specific case of [John Conyers](http://thehill.com/homenews/house/362230-conyers-spokesman-most-of-us-have-walked-in-on-him-changing-in-his-office). But that doesn’t imply a pattern. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/113 "2018-03-07T21:58:19Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If there’s no evidence, not even correlative, of a problem, I’m not convinced there’s a problem. I don’t think we have the data to opine. It’s really on them (the legislators), as the people who might have sense of the reality of the question, to decide. Though, there may be one way of determining, which would be to compare harassment rates in Congress to your average corporation. That wouldn’t tell you that it was about the beds, but it would at least tell us whether it was worth trying different things and seeing if the spaghetti sticks to the wall. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/114 "2018-03-07T22:01:52Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Actually, it did become an issue in the specific case of [John Conyers](http://thehill.com/homenews/house/362230-conyers-spokesman-most-of-us-have-walked-in-on-him-changing-in-his-office). > > But that doesn’t imply a pattern. Even if they are not living in their offices, it is not unreasonable for them to occasionally change clothes there. Of course, if you sleep in the nude, and you don’t get up till 9am, and you expect your staff to be in at 8, that’s a bit of a problem. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 7, 2018, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/115 "2018-03-07T22:36:08Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Meaning no offense, but if you can’t figure out a way to make things work on a $174k salary, _you should not hold as much power as any individual in congress holds_, because you are clearly dearly out of touch of the reality of the vast majority of your constituents, and you are clearly _bad at money_. I largely agree with this, and also think the people who _should be running this country_\* should be able to procure living arrangement more dignified than college freshmen pledging a fraternity. \*See what I did there? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/116 "2018-03-08T17:34:26Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I largely agree with this, and also think the people who _should be running this country_\* should be able to procure living arrangement more dignified than college freshmen pledging a fraternity. > > \*See what I did there? 😛 I really feel that if they make the complaint that they just are not able to make it on such a paltry salary, they really have no idea what it’s like to make hard choices. This explains why they are unable to compromise as they are used to getting everything that they want. If your idea of an important opportunity cost decision is whether you should vacation 2 weeks in the hamptons, or 1 week in the south of france, then you don’t know what it is like to make choices where the opportunity tradeoffs are actually things that you need. Knowing what it is like to give things up that you really wanted, or even thought you needed, in order to achieve the things that you really need to survive another day is a skill that seems utterly lacking in congress. Yeah, they may be smart and driven, but they are handicapped by their entitled attitude, and no ambition can cure that. ---
**Author:** ![Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Ass\_For\_A\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ass_For_A_Hat)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/117 "2018-03-08T17:41:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Of course, if you sleep in the nude, and you don’t get up till 9am, and you expect your staff to be in at 8, that’s a bit of a problem. Isn’t this where the discussion lies? If you’re using your office as your residence, there will always be certain things that you won’t want your coworkers exposed to. Things on the spectrum between clipping your toenails and bringing home one night stands from the bar. And while most reasonable people would take exceptional care not to expose other people in the office to these things, when you get a group of 535 people, there will be a few that won’t take that care…whether it’s through obliviousness or malice. When those 535 people are congresspeople, maybe a few more than you’d expect. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/118 "2018-03-08T17:47:31Z")
I frankly don’t see why there’s some assumption in this thread that the people sleeping in their office are doing it because of their “paltry salary”. Sure, some may be trying to save a buck but they probably know they could afford something cheap at least. Very few Congresspeople want to go on record asking for a raise. Isn’t it more reasonable to assume that most of these people are doing it as a political stunt or because they are cheapskates? I mean, if it’s affordability, why is it only men and lopsidedly Republican? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/119 "2018-03-08T18:36:44Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I frankly don’t see why there’s some assumption in this thread that the people sleeping in their office are doing it because of their “paltry salary”. Sure, some may be trying to save a buck but they probably know they could afford something cheap at least. Very few Congresspeople want to go on record asking for a raise. Isn’t it more reasonable to assume that most of these people are doing it as a political stunt or because they are cheapskates? I mean, if it’s affordability, why is it only men and lopsidedly Republican? It was noted earlier that largely the ones sleeping in their office are republicans. I think it is more likely republicans do not want to be in an apartment complex where the riff-raff might start asking hard questions or giving them shit. I can guarantee if (as an example) Paul Ryan lived in my building I’d have some words with him every chance I got. I am pretty sure I wouldn’t be the only one and I am pretty sure Ryan would want to avoid that if at all possible. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122/120 "2018-03-08T18:45:42Z")
I think that’s completely ridiculous, and based on a caricatured view of Republicans as a bunch of fat cat rich guys who avoid all contact with members of the “underclass”. The most likely reason for the skew is the opposite - it’s the Republican appeal to anti-government populist types, who want to see their representatives as hard-working plain-living thrifty regular guys. Sleeping in the office plays to that image. Which is not to say that finances are not also a big part of it. But once it got established in Republican circles for the above reason, then it’s more likely to be adopted by other Republicans, than by Democrats in similar financial circumstances. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresspeople-sleeping-in-their-offices/810122.md?page=7)