# Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot in the head? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 8, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904 "2011-01-08T18:36:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/181 "2011-01-08T22:35:19Z")
> [@Walmarticus](#): > > It’s quite possible that he’s not Glenn Beck crazy but medically/dramatically. What makes you think the two are incompatible? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/182 "2011-01-08T22:35:38Z")
Wikipedia says a security officer at the scene fired back at the gunman, but did not hit him. I wonder if any of the injuries were from ‘friendly fire’ ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/183 "2011-01-08T22:41:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > What makes you think the two are incompatible? I withdraw the Glenn Beck comment. The guy is _substantially_ crazier than the main the republican base. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/184 "2011-01-08T22:42:13Z")
I don’t know that he is either Republican or Democrat. He just seems to be very disturbed. I don’t understand his message. What he means by grammar. He certainly isn’t fluent in the nuances of English grammar, I think he means something entirely different. his main point of consciousness dreaming is also left completely unexplained. He’s not railing against illegals or health care or the economy. He’s just mumbling nonsense, possibly so that his plans aren’t revealed. I notice that his profile is mostly in the past tense as though he was expecting to martyr himself. There was also a report that someone opened fire on Loughner from the crowd. One of the things that read from me about the pro-handgun lobby is that guns are needed for self-defense and would allow people to stop crimes in progress. Yet, I’ve seen very few reports of anyone taking down one of these school/college/mall gunmen. Litigation fears I guess. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/185 "2011-01-08T22:46:51Z")
> [@tnetennba](#): > > Crocodile tears. She’ll be telling armed, deranged people next week that liberals are stealing their freedom and hate God. Do you have any evidence that she has knowingly done this? (Speaking to armed and degranged people, that is. Liberals are stealing our freedoms and many of them do hate God, but that’s for a different thread. I mention it only to point out the errors in your assertion.) > [@tnetennba](#): > > Yeah, well, given the stridency of the right, “they’re stealing your freedom!” and the repeated meme of arming themselves, shooting the opposition, there’s a little bit more culpability than the right would ever want to admit. And just where is this “meme” to be found in actuality? Outside your head, that is? I follow politics fairly closely and I’m a conservative, yet I don’t believe I’ve ever heard any righties being told to arm themselves and shoot the opposition in my life. Must be a closed-circuit meme. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/186 "2011-01-08T22:52:11Z")
Here is a lot more information about the shooter: > **[Man linked to Giffords shooting rampage called 'very disturbed'](https://tucson.com/news/local/crime/article_91db5db4-1b74-11e0-ba23-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story)** > > The man linked to the shooting today of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and others is 22-year-old Jared Lee Loughner, the Associated Press reported. "He lists among his favorite books “Mein Kampf” and “The Communist Manifesto”. But he also includes a broad variety of other titles, including: “Animal Farm,” "Brave New World,“To Kill a Mockingbird,” and “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”. He was a student at our local community college and apparently was kicked out for being so disruptive in class… shouting out nonsense and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Walmarticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Walmarticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walmarticus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/187 "2011-01-08T22:53:32Z")
Also I don’t think [flag burning](http://www.youtube.com/user/Starhitshnaz) is compatible with most right winger spiels. Also, no sane person could ever like Drowning Pool. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/188 "2011-01-08T22:56:36Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > "He lists among his favorite books “Mein Kampf” and “The Communist Manifesto”. But he also includes a broad variety of other titles, including: “Animal Farm,” "Brave New World,“To Kill a Mockingbird,” and “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest”. No **Catcher in the Rye**? ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/189 "2011-01-08T23:04:45Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > I don’t understand his message. What he means by grammar. He certainly isn’t fluent in the nuances of English grammar, I think he means something entirely different. his main point of consciousness dreaming is also left completely unexplained. The stuff he’s saying doesn’t make any sense probably because he is psychotic. Seriously. He’s in [the right age range](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Epidemiology) to be having a first psychotic break. The disorganized rambling has a very psychotic flavor to it. People who are trying to find a logical explanation here may be disappointed. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/190 "2011-01-08T23:12:39Z")
A lot more laid back than most nuts. Seems to believe that cryptic words games should be enough to open the eyes of the sheep. The only real ideology I saw was that he wouldn’t accept currency not backed by gold and silver. ---
**Author:** ![DxZero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DxZero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DxZero)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/191 "2011-01-08T23:17:43Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > The stuff he’s saying doesn’t make any sense probably because he is psychotic. Seriously. He’s in [the right age range](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia#Epidemiology) to be having a first psychotic break. The disorganized rambling has a very psychotic flavor to it. People who are trying to find a logical explanation here may be disappointed. Yeah the attempts to use a flawed logical process coupled with the jumps in his reasoning scream schizophrenia (or some variant) to this armchair psychologist. I had a friend when I was younger who used to make similarly crazy statements based on this kind of “logic”. Things like “I am a mammal. Elephants are mammals. Therefore I am an elephant.\*” Kind of scary to watch it happen to a friend. Fortunately, he wasn’t violent and he did get help eventually, I think. \*Exaggerated example ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/192 "2011-01-08T23:26:50Z")
You know, this situation brings to mind something I’ve thought for a long time. The legal system needs to come up with a more realistic benchmark for insanity than the current one, which is that the person must be shown not to have known what he was doing or unable to process that it’s illegal. People who are insane do insane things whether they know what they’re doing is wrong or not. It’s the crazy things they do that are symptomatic of the illness, not what they do or don’t know about externally applied boundries. In other words, people who are crazy are simply crazy. It doesn’t matter what they know or don’t know about what they’re doing. That said, in the case of criminal activity every precaution should be taken to make sure the derangement is real and not being faked. But people like this guy seems to be are so obviously out there and have been for so long that there isn’t much of a question that they’re truly insane. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/193 "2011-01-08T23:41:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Liberals are stealing our freedoms and many of them do hate God, but that’s for a different thread. As much as I hate falling for hijacks, this deserves rebutting. It’s conservatives who continually look at the Consititution like it’s a pile of used toilet paper (their precious second amendment aside), and no thinking person hates god any more than they hate the tooth fairy. Give it up. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/194 "2011-01-08T23:46:50Z")
> [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > There was also a report that someone opened fire on Loughner from the crowd. One of the things that read from me about the pro-handgun lobby is that guns are needed for self-defense and would allow people to stop crimes in progress. Yet, I’ve seen very few reports of anyone taking down one of these school/college/mall gunmen. Litigation fears I guess. Huh? “That guy’s shooting up the mall, killing ppl, but I’ll keep my gun in it’s holster because of litigation fears.” Is that what you are implying? ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/195 "2011-01-08T23:47:07Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Please take the right wing vs. left wing violence discussion to the Pit thread or somewhere else if (for some reason) you must continue in that vein. Some of you seem to have missed this. I am willing to start issuing warnings for ignoring moderator instructions if people continue down that track. **twickster** , MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/196 "2011-01-08T23:56:40Z")
Horrible situation. One of the greatest accomplishment of a democracy is the orderly transfer of power. This is an attack on the very principles on which this country was founded. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/197 "2011-01-09T00:04:47Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > The congresswoman from my area in Tucson was shot this morning. She was shot in the head, along with 10 others who were wounded. At least so it says in early reporting. > > She was having an “Talk with the Congresswoman” at a local grocery store not too far from me. > > She was recently re-elected Democrat. > > I’m shocked. Oh, hell, no. Hell, no. Such slaughter. I’m also shocked. 6 dead, including a judge and a small child. I hope Congresswoman Giffords makes a full recovery, as well as the other wounded. But my thoughts are also with the deceased. May the shooter be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b9bd4f/32.png) [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nunzio_Tavulari)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/198 "2011-01-09T00:09:55Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > Huh? “That guy’s shooting up the mall, killing ppl, but I’ll keep my gun in it’s holster because of litigation fears.” Is that what you are implying? That’s exactly what I’m saying. I hear many saying that they have a concealed carry permit to protect themselves and their family in the event a madman stats shooting people. Yet I’ve yet to hear of a citizen taking down anyone in the process of committing a crime. I’m curious why this need for self-protection is rarely or never fulfilled. Everybody in my red state has a rifle in their truck. More than 25% of the people I know have a concealed carry. Yet we still have workplace violence and convenience store robberies and nobody has stepped up to return fire. The people I know are not fearful and they support the law, I theorize that they are afraid of some lowlife taking their house because they shot the guy in the leg. i don’t own a gun, therefore I’m unclear what the laws are in this state about how you can use one to protect your property and your family. In September, there was a gunman at the University Of Texas Austin. I remember reading about a few people who were on campus, armed and had received warnings to stay inside. They all did. This was early in the story, and I didn’t follow it up. It could have been inaccurate or falsely planted by someone as propaganda. In this Arizona story, thee is confusion about whether the shooter had an accomplice. It was also unclear in the stories that I read whether someone in the crowd had attempted to shoot the gunman. Some said that there was a security guard present. I believe that the same person is at the core of both rumors. This looks like a lone gunman scenario to me. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Love](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e8c25b/32.png) [@Dr.Love](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Love)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/199 "2011-01-09T00:19:55Z")
> [@DxZero](#): > > Yeah the attempts to use a flawed logical process coupled with the jumps in his reasoning scream schizophrenia (or some variant) to this armchair psychologist. I had a friend when I was younger who used to make similarly crazy statements based on this kind of “logic”. Things like “I am a mammal. Elephants are mammals. Therefore I am an elephant.\*” Kind of scary to watch it happen to a friend. Fortunately, he wasn’t violent and he did get help eventually, I think. > > \*Exaggerated example I’m curious about his constant use of syllogism. As far as I can tell, all of them are logically correct (unlike your example) except one (which has a mistake that many would make), although the major premise is usually something bizarre. And the jumps between the syllogisms don’t make any sense. > [@Nunzio\_Tavulari](#): > > I don’t understand his message. What he means by grammar. He certainly isn’t fluent in the nuances of English grammar, I think he means something entirely different. his main point of consciousness dreaming is also left completely unexplained. > > He’s not railing against illegals or health care or the economy. He’s just mumbling nonsense, possibly so that his plans aren’t revealed. I notice that his profile is mostly in the past tense as though he was expecting to martyr himself. Someone in the Pit thread interpreted the talk about language/grammar as a rant about the number of Spanish speakers in Tucson. I think he’s asserting that language controls thought, as in 1984. I found an [analysis of his videos](http://xpostfactoid.blogspot.com/2011/01/jared-lee-loughton-fallenasleep.html) that comes to the same conclusion. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2011, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904/200 "2011-01-09T00:26:52Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Are liberals immune to mental illness? This is hilarious. **Dio** was using understatement to make a point. Never mind… These are my questions: I am shocked by this (have been at work all day with no news on). Does Gifford have family–kids? Those poor people–that little girl. So senseless and stupid. If this Jared is the perp and is so obviously mentally unstable–how did he acquire a gun? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/congresswoman-gabrielle-giffords-shot-in-the-head/566904.md?page=11)