# Connecticut has nor coastline - really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 13, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786 "2011-05-13T15:58:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ticker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@ticker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ticker)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/1 "2011-05-13T15:58:30Z")
I was just watching a TV game show “Pointless” here in the UK. This show is usually pretty much on-the-money accuracy wise but I was taken aback a bit by one round. Contestants were asked to each name one of the 22 US states with a coast. They then went on to say that “for geographical reasons we won’t accept either Pennsylvania or Connecticut - they have tidal shorelines but not technically a coast”. What!!??? As far as I can see Pennsylvania has a shoreline on Lake Erie but is quite a ways from the ocean. I can see how that makes in ineligible but not why they single it out when several states are in the same situation. Connecticut on the other hand has several hundred miles of what look very much like coast to me. It also has the US Coast Guard Academy and a Navy Submarine base. Is there any legitimacy to the show not accepting CT? ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/2 "2011-05-13T16:01:18Z")
The rationale must be that Connecticut’s shoreline lies entirely on Long Island Sound rather than the Atlantic Ocean per se. Seems like hair-splitting to me, though. Pennsylvania’s “tidal shoreline” is presumably the lower part of the Delaware River where it turns into Delaware Bay. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/3 "2011-05-13T16:18:12Z")
Long Island Sound is an estuary, which typically don’t get counted as part of the sea even though they are saltwater. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/4 "2011-05-13T16:23:41Z")
Was Illinois one of them? Some years ago they managed to get a court to rule that Lake Michigan is “an arm of the sea”, so they could compete for the America’s Cup. That would suggest they have a coastline too. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/5 "2011-05-13T16:25:32Z")
Since it’s a UK show, I doubt they care about where an American court thinks the sea ends. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/6 "2011-05-13T16:29:06Z")
Did they count Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama? If those count, being on the Gulf of Mexico and not the Atlantic, I would have counted Connecticut. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/7 "2011-05-13T16:30:46Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Was Illinois one of them? Some years ago they managed to get a court to rule that Lake Michigan is “an arm of the sea”, so they could compete for the America’s Cup. That would suggest they have a coastline too. Yep, and our local NPR outlet in Chicago (on the shores of Lake Michigan), WBEZ, started a wonderful series of radio programs that they named the Third Coast Festival, proving for once and for all that there is a coast here. QED ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/8 "2011-05-13T16:35:50Z")
The Cleveland, Ohio area is sometimes called in local media “the North Coast.” Seems lame, and pedantic to a fault, to say that Conn. and Penna. don’t have a “coast.” ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/9 "2011-05-13T16:39:03Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The Cleveland, Ohio area is sometimes called in local media “the North Coast.” > > Seems lame, and pedantic to a fault, to say that Conn. and Penna. don’t have a “coast.” “Lame, and pedantic to a fault” describes most UK knowledge-based game shows. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/10 "2011-05-13T16:44:09Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Did they count Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama? If those count, being on the Gulf of Mexico and not the Atlantic, I would have counted Connecticut. The Gulf of Mexico is part of the Atlantic. Long Island Sound isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/11 "2011-05-13T16:48:34Z")
The Gulf of Mexico has been claimed as the “[Third Coast](http://www.tcmnradio.com/what.htm)” too. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/12 "2011-05-13T16:50:50Z")
Where do they draw the line (literally)? Does Italy have a coast, or is the Mediterranean just a “tidal estuary”? Does the Isle of Man have a coast? How big do you have to be to not be counted as an estuary? ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/13 "2011-05-13T16:53:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The Gulf of Mexico is part of the Atlantic. Long Island Sound isn’t. My guess is slightly different: Gulf of Mexico is international waters; Long Island Sound isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/14 "2011-05-13T16:55:24Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > Where do they draw the line (literally)? Does Italy have a coast, or is the Mediterranean just a “tidal estuary”? Does the Isle of Man have a coast? How big do you have to be to not be counted as an estuary? Big enough that there’s no measurable reduction in your salt level from the fresh water sources flowing into you. I don’t think there’s really a hard and fast rule beyond that. [QUOTE=Keeve] My guess is slightly different: Gulf of Mexico is international waters; Long Island Sound isn’t. [/QUOTE] Eh? The _coastline_ along the Gulf of Mexico is definitely _not_ international waters. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/15 "2011-05-13T17:04:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Big enough that there’s no measurable reduction in your salt level from the fresh water sources flowing into you. I don’t think there’s really a hard and fast rule beyond that. There is a differing salt concentration between the Pacific and Atlantic, what would be the standard? Perhaps the Atlantic is a tidal estuary then, ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/16 "2011-05-13T17:05:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Long Island Sound is an estuary, which typically don’t get counted as part of the sea even though they are saltwater. At least according to the definition in Merriam-Webster, Long Island Sound would not count as one (although I see that Wiki does call it an estuary). I don’t recall ever having heard it referred to as one. > [@](#): > > Definition of ESTUARY > > : a water passage where the tide meets a river current; especially : an arm of the sea at the lower end of a river As far as I know, around Long Island Sound the tide meets river currents within the mouths of the rivers flowing into it (such as Bronx portion of the East River), and those would be the actual estuaries. The tidal flow in the Sound itself is not affected significantly by river currents, so it is not an estuary. There would seem to be good pedantic reasons to consider Connecticut to have a coastline. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/17 "2011-05-13T17:12:10Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > At least according to the definition in Merriam-Webster, Long Island Sound would not count as one (although I see that Wiki does call it an estuary). I don’t recall ever having heard it referred to as one. I don’t know anything about Long Island Sound. I looked it up and went with Wiki’s description without reading further. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/18 "2011-05-13T17:24:40Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The Cleveland, Ohio area is sometimes called in local media “the North Coast.” > > Seems lame, and pedantic to a fault, to say that Conn. and Penna. don’t have a “coast.” Agree on Connecticut, but I don’t know why anyone would think PA has an oceanic coast - the Delaware is very much still a river by the time it leaves the state. It may be a tidal estuary of sorts, but if you can stand right on the riverbank and see the other side, it’s still a river for my money. Based on inspection, here are the 22 states I’d guess are correct: Atlantic: Maine New Hampshire Massachusetts Rhode Island New York New Jersey Delaware Maryland Virginia North Carolina South Carolina Georgia Florida Alabama Mississippi Louisiana Texas Pacific: California Oregon Washington Alaska Hawaii ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/19 "2011-05-13T17:27:47Z")
For geographers, there is a technical difference between coastline and shoreline. Connecticut has no coastline, but it does have shoreline. See this [table.](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001801.html) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/20 "2011-05-13T17:30:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Big enough that there’s no measurable reduction in your salt level from the fresh water sources flowing into you. I don’t think there’s really a hard and fast rule beyond that. But nearly every rule will have weird outliers. By the salinity rule, [Sweden](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baltic_sea#Salinity) doesn’t have an eastern coast. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786.md?page=2)