# Connecticut has nor coastline - really? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 13, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786 "2011-05-13T15:58:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/21 "2011-05-13T17:39:29Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > For geographers, there is a technical difference between coastline and shoreline. Connecticut has no coastline, but it does have shoreline. See this [table.](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001801.html) Using that definition, I would think that the Mediterranean is an estuary and has no coastline, since the Straights of Gibraltar are too narrow. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/22 "2011-05-13T17:48:16Z")
I’m still not clear on the distinction between “coastline” and “tidal shoreline.” Don’t all ocean coasts experience at least diurnal tides? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/23 "2011-05-13T18:01:33Z")
> [@](#): > > The Gulf of Mexico is part of the Atlantic. Long Island Sound isn’t. So it’s, what? Part of the Pacific? Or the Indian Ocean, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/24 "2011-05-13T18:56:54Z")
Only by torturing definitions can this claim be considered to have any amount of truth. The table **suryani** linked to claims CT has a freshwater shoreline, which is a frankly laughable claim. Salinity ranges from [23.5 parts per thousand to 35 parts per thousand](http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD018125&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf) as you go from west to east. Only at the most restricted waters of the New York end could that be called anything other than [clearly saline](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salinity). The salinity is not far off the range for the waters immediately outside the Sound. In fact,if you applied that standard to the coastlines in general, you’d eliminate a large part of the entire Pacific Coast. I’d call that not merely pedantic to a fault, but pedantic to the point of idiocy. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/25 "2011-05-13T19:25:23Z")
I’d like to know how that table gets 89 miles of tidal shoreline for Pennsylvania. It can’t be on Lake Erie, because then Ohio would be on the chart. Therefore, it has to be the Delaware River, right? But if it was the entire Delaware River, it would be more like 200 miles, from Delaware, winding its way up to New York. Therefore, it has to be part of the Delaware River. But which part? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/26 "2011-05-13T19:32:34Z")
My guess would have been that the boundaries of Connecticut and Pennsylvania are drawn in such a manner as to exclude the portion of their shorelines that actually touch the water. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/27 "2011-05-13T19:39:16Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > But which part? The lower part, which rises and falls with the tides. Further upstream the current of the river overwhelms and stops the tidewater. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/28 "2011-05-13T19:40:03Z")
According to [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_coastline) Wikipedia article, Connecticut does have a coastline. And the second table includes Great Lakes shores as coastline. And [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast) Wikipedia article says: > [@](#): > > A pelagic coast refers to a coast which fronts the open ocean, as opposed to a more sheltered coast in a gulf or bay. A shore, on the other hand, can refer to parts of the land which adjoin any large body of water, including oceans (sea shore) and lakes (lake shore). This seems to imply that there is such a thing as a non-pelagic coast that fronts on a gulf or a bay. That would seem to me to include Connecticut’s shoreline. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/29 "2011-05-13T19:40:27Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > I’d like to know how that table gets 89 miles of tidal shoreline for Pennsylvania. > > It can’t be on Lake Erie, because then Ohio would be on the chart. Therefore, it has to be the Delaware River, right? But if it was the entire Delaware River, it would be more like 200 miles, from Delaware, winding its way up to New York. Therefore, it has to be part of the Delaware River. > > But which part? The part that’s affected by tides. The lower part of the Delaware is affected by tides, and that is the tidal shoreline. Higher up the river is not affected by tides. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/30 "2011-05-13T20:30:39Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > The lower part, which rises and falls with the tides. Further upstream the current of the river overwhelms and stops the tidewater. By that definition, the tidal shoreline should be shorter than the coastline, because it is only a potion of it. But in every case, the shoreline is longer. I still don’t understand the difference between the two. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/31 "2011-05-13T20:33:25Z")
Discussions like this are why I LOVE the Dope. ---
**Author:** ![postcards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8e8cbc/32.png) [@postcards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postcards)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/32 "2011-05-13T20:34:33Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > For geographers, there is a technical difference between coastline and shoreline. Connecticut has no coastline, but it does have shoreline. See this [table.](http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001801.html) > [@spark240](#): > > I’m still not clear on the distinction between “coastline” and “tidal shoreline.” Don’t all ocean coasts experience at least diurnal tides? And wouldn’t Hawaii have the same number of miles in both its shoreline and coastline? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/33 "2011-05-13T21:14:42Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > By that definition, the tidal shoreline should be shorter than the coastline, because it is only a potion of it. But in every case, the shoreline is longer. I still don’t understand the difference between the two. The tidal shoreline _includes_ the outer, oceanic coastline, _plus_ the parts of estuaries affected by tides. So the coastline will always be shorter than the tidal shoreline. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/34 "2011-05-13T21:15:17Z")
> [@postcards](#): > > And wouldn’t Hawaii have the same number of miles in both its shoreline and coastline? Pearl Harbor, for one example, would be tidal shoreline but not coastline. ---
**Author:** ![paperbackwriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@paperbackwriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/paperbackwriter)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/35 "2011-05-13T22:18:08Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > This seems to imply that there is such a thing as a non-pelagic coast that fronts on a gulf or a bay. That would seem to me to include Connecticut’s shoreline. But I see no way to construct a definition of “coastline” that excludes all of CT’s coast while also including all of Texas’s, Louisiana’s, Mississippi’s, Alabama’s, and most of Florida’s. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2011, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/36 "2011-05-13T22:39:03Z")
… ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/37 "2011-05-14T00:07:10Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > But I see no way to construct a definition of “coastline” that excludes all of CT’s coast while also including all of Texas’s, Louisiana’s, Mississippi’s, Alabama’s, and most of Florida’s. I’m confused by your use of “but.” you didn’t contradict anything I said. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/38 "2011-05-14T00:23:44Z")
It’s beyond me why anyone would feel the need to specifically exclude Pennsylvania. Who could possibly consider it to have a coast? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/39 "2011-05-14T02:09:19Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > It’s beyond me why anyone would feel the need to specifically exclude Pennsylvania. Who could possibly consider it to have a coast? Perhaps the fact that Philadelphia has for almost all of American history been a major ocean port might induce someone to think so. Actually it’s a matter of arbitrary definition where the Delaware River becomes Delaware Bay – it’s clearly bay at Lewes and clearly river at Trenton NJ, but at what point between them does it transition? And why there? ---
**Author:** ![jasonh300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/46a35a/32.png) [@jasonh300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasonh300)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2011, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786/40 "2011-05-14T02:11:31Z")
> [@paperbackwriter](#): > > But I see no way to construct a definition of “coastline” that excludes all of CT’s coast while also including all of Texas’s, Louisiana’s, Mississippi’s, Alabama’s, and most of Florida’s. Because the Gulf of Mexico is part of the Atlantic Ocean. It’s not a separate body of water. Not that anyone who lives on the Gulf Coast would ever say they live on the Atlantic Ocean. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/connecticut-has-nor-coastline-really/581786.md?page=3)