# Consent vs Rape **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 17, 2008, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146 "2008-11-17T17:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/21 "2008-11-17T21:14:06Z")
> [@villa](#): > > No it really isn’t. In the majority of states, not saying no is sufficient. There is no requirement for affirmative consent. I was responding in particular to the idea that “[a]nything short of an unambiguous “Yes” is over the line.” Ah. Fair enough, then. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/22 "2008-11-17T21:30:06Z")
Seconded, still, for my own protection, I’m going for the unambiguous ‘Yes’ to avoid being sent to where my unambiguous "NO!’ might be ignored. ;):eek: ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/23 "2008-11-17T22:44:00Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I hate the binary nature of rape as a crime. Why the “it is or it isn’t”? On a legal scale, I’d say guilty, though I don’t know the details. On an ethical/moral scale, I wouldn’t rank it that high…probably on par with black-eye assault rather than coughing-blood assault. So … [if you were a woman, not a clue if you are or not] You would be ok with being drugged to be anally raped even though you had been refusing anal sex for the past 5 years because you find it horribly revolting [or even against your religion], or your BF hates condoms, and has herpes and figures if you get herpes you will stop making him wear condoms … Interesting view of black eye vs sucking chest wound assault. You cant have a little bit of rape, it is all or nothing [and we are not even considering consensual sex between an inderaged girl andher 19 year old boyfriend … we are talking nonconsensual fucking.] ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/24 "2008-11-18T00:16:40Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > You cant have a little bit of rape, it is all or nothing [and we are not even considering consensual sex between an inderaged girl andher 19 year old boyfriend … we are talking nonconsensual fucking.] His _main point_ was that he hates the all-or-nothing definition itself. ---
**Author:** ![BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/25 "2008-11-18T00:42:43Z")
> [@Kinthalis](#): > > First, for those not in the know about all things rape, what is GHB? Duh. It’s grevious harm bodily. Er, no… wait. It’s growth hormone bovine. Dammit… ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/26 "2008-11-18T00:52:03Z")
> [@chacoguy420](#): > > So, 21 year-old guy goes to a rave and takes GHB. He wakes up in bed with a couple in their 70’s. There’s lube running out of the crack of his ass and there’s lots of SMDS toys scattered about the room. The couple say in unison “We don’t remember much about last night either, but it seems like you were pretty terrific.” > > He should be cool with that right? > > These seemingly difficult ethical issues get a lot clearer when you’re on the receiving end. In this situation, what exactly happened? Was he awake when he met/had sex with the couple and just can’t remember consenting? or was he unconscious? ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/27 "2008-11-18T02:47:36Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > In this situation, what exactly happened? Was he awake when he met/had sex with the couple and just can’t remember consenting? or was he unconscious? When I posted it, I was suggesting that _none_ of them was particularly sure. They all got sloppy stupid and did something stupid. I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that many men in that situation would either want to commit violence or press charges. That said, many of those same men seem to have a disconnect relating to a woman who woke up in similar circumstances. “Well, she was pretty wasted and tried to stop me at first; but then later she didn’t put up much of a fight, so I figured that I could do what I wanted.” Maybe I’m weird. To me, consensual sex and non-consensual sex have no overlap. I’ve had naked women pass out in my bed; I covered them up and slept on the couch. First, that’s simply being a Gentleman; secondly, it’s for my own protection so that there is no way for a woman to question if she’s okay with what happened last night. Either way, it’s in my self interest to make sure that it is perfectly clear that we both want to have sex before _ **and after** _. Further, I believe that is just; that laws are written, where there is bias towards protecting potential victims. If a guy has to go without getting laid for a night, that sucks. If a woman wakes up realizing that she has had non-consensual sex, that a potentially life-changing event. And Yes, I know I haven’t related this to homosexual sex, but I hope most of you can draw the relevant conclusions without having me spell them out. If you’re the penetrator, it’s your job to play nice. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/28 "2008-11-18T02:55:09Z")
> [@chacoguy420](#): > > When I posted it, I was suggesting that _none_ of them was particularly sure. They all got sloppy stupid and did something stupid. I’m going to go out on a limb and suggest that many men in that situation would either want to commit violence or press charges. > > That said, many of those same men seem to have a disconnect relating to a woman who woke up in similar circumstances. “Well, she was pretty wasted and tried to stop me at first; but then later she didn’t put up much of a fight, so I figured that I could do what I wanted.” Ah, got it. I guess I’m a little confused about GHB. I had always assumed it was just something to make the victim pass out but I’m starting to realize it’s more like a drug to…make you lose inhibitions? Sedate you? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/29 "2008-11-18T03:11:52Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Ah, got it. > > I guess I’m a little confused about GHB. I had always assumed it was just something to make the victim pass out but I’m starting to realize it’s more like a drug to…make you lose inhibitions? Sedate you? The oft-quoted explanation is that a capful\* of GHB has roughly the same effect vis-a-vis inhibitions as a six pack of beer. Used in conjunction with a sedative, it alters the victim’s behavior while he/she is under the influence and makes the victim a bit foggy about the previous night’s events. Rohypnol does sort of the same thing, only without the behavioral changes, AIUI. \*Raver kids used to put it in bottled-water bottles to get it past nightclub security, so it’s commonly measured in capfuls by users, both the date-rape and recreational kind. ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/30 "2008-11-18T03:16:53Z")
Google search from the NIDA (National Institute on Drug Abuse). GHB acts on at least two sites in the brain: the GABAB receptor and a specific GHB binding site. At high doses, GHB’s sedative effects may result in sleep, coma, or death. Rohypnol, like other benzodiazepines, acts at the GABAA receptor. It can produce anterograde amnesia, in which individuals may not remember events they experienced while under the influence of the drug. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/31 "2008-11-18T11:53:24Z")
It should be pointed out that the crime is the perprtrators not the victims. The issue thus is the accused’s mens rea; i.e did he actually believe that consent was given (or have reason to believe) at the time of the act. Honest belief under the c ommon law is still honest belief and he thus lacks the necessary mens rea. If you spike someones drink, you don’t honestly believe that they are consenting, hence the spike. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/32 "2008-11-18T12:01:21Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > I hate the binary nature of rape as a crime. Why the “it is or it isn’t”? On a legal scale, I’d say guilty, though I don’t know the details. On an ethical/moral scale, I wouldn’t rank it that high…probably on par with black-eye assault rather than coughing-blood assault. To me, morally, having the person I love slipping me a mickey in order to perform sex acts with me that I object to would be much worse than a stranger attacking me. ---
**Author:** ![Telperien](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@Telperien](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telperien)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146/33 "2008-11-18T14:36:05Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Well, sometimes. But absent the suspicion of anal rape of a hetero guy, the scenario where he gets drunk, wakes up next morning, sees what’s on the pillow next to him and seriously considers chewing off his own arm rather than wake her up… that’s considered humorous, but not grounds for a rape charge as I understand the societal view. Both sexes would be advised to moderate their consumption of intoxicants such that things like this don’t happen. Ah, that sky pie looks so tasty from here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/consent-vs-rape/473146.md?page=1)