# "Conservative" Beliefs **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2009, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713 "2009-04-29T07:27:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/61 "2009-05-01T19:44:42Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I’m one of those people who believes that we’re turning the United States into a banana republic, and uncontrolled immigration is a major factor in that transformation. I take a great deal of satisfaction in the fact that you’re unable to give a rational response to anything I actually say. Your delusions aren’t my concern. The strength of the US is the way we synthesize the cultures of those who come here with what we already have. The fact that you find that to be creating a “banana republic” is telling. Frankly, if we were going for a “pure” American culture, we’d send everyone who can’t verify Native American ancestry back to 1620 back to their country of ultimate origin, raze every city, town and village, and leave things for those we stole it from in the first place. It’s the reduction ad absurdum of your favorite argument. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/62 "2009-05-01T19:49:47Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > No, I think I hit that right on the mark. You can deny it all you want, but your rage against all the brown people immigrating to the US and destroying our precious white European civilization speaks very clearly for you. Well, no, you didn’t hit the mark. My rage is directed more at people like you, who refuse to understand that our failure to control our own borders and our horrendous mismanagement of our economy mean that the United States will sooner or later go the way of the Soviet Union. (And the blame for that lies all across the political spectrum, not just the lefties.) ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/63 "2009-05-01T19:51:52Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Your delusions aren’t my concern. The strength of the US is the way we synthesize the cultures of those who come here with what we already have. The fact that you find that to be creating a “banana republic” is telling. _ **SIGH** _ War is peace. Slavery is freedom. Diversity is strength. > [@jayjay](#): > > Frankly, if we were going for a “pure” American culture, we’d send everyone who can’t verify Native American ancestry back to 1620 back to their country of ultimate origin, raze every city, town and village, and leave things for those we stole it from in the first place. It’s the reduction ad absurdum of your favorite argument. Again, I take satisfaction in the fact that you are unable to respond honestly to anything I’ve actually said. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/64 "2009-05-01T19:59:00Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Again, I take satisfaction in the fact that you are unable to respond honestly to anything I’ve actually said. You are apparently incapable of understanding the English language. They have schools for that, you know. If I’m misrepresenting your philosophy, please explain how I’m doing so. Oh, and this: > [@Lonesome Polecat](#): > > _ **SIGH** _ War is peace. Slavery is freedom. Diversity is strength. is a non-sequitur. Can you even explain how it relates to what you quoted from me? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/65 "2009-05-01T20:14:26Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > You are apparently incapable of understanding the English language. They have schools for that, you know. > > If I’m misrepresenting your philosophy, please explain how I’m doing so. > > Oh, and this: > > is a non-sequitur. Can you even explain how it relates to what you quoted from me? I have an excellent grasp of the English language. As for schooling, I have a B.A. in journalism with a minor in English. No, I won’t try to explain my philosophy, as I don’t think you’re seriously interested in understanding me and wouldn’t listen with an open mind. As for the “non-sequitur,” it’s a paraphrase of the Ingsoc slogans in Orwell’s _1984_. It’s intent is to parody the absurd happy talk we keep hearing over and over again about how “diversity is our strength,” which you were parroting in your post. It was intended to show how simple-minded, shallow, and just plain intellectually dishonest such talk is. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/66 "2009-05-01T20:20:05Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > As for the “non-sequitur,” it’s a paraphrase of the Ingsoc slogans in Orwell’s _1984_. It’s intent is to parody the absurd happy talk we keep hearing over and over again about how “diversity is our strength,” which you were parroting in your post. It was intended to show how simple-minded, shallow, and just plain intellectually dishonest such talk is. As much as it may surprise you, I did recognize where it came from. I was saying that it had no logical connection with what I posted and you quoted immediately before it. And you’re right…I was only trying to lure you into posting your vile little philosophy here in the open so everyone can see what a monster you are in your little mind. _shrug_ I guess it’s not necessary for YOU to post it. From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10349839&postcount=106), in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=10349839): > [@Lonesome Polecat](#): > > I really don’t care whether or not it’s “racist” in your eyes. And the issue isn’t terrorism, the issue is the radical transformation of our society. Radically altering the nation’s racial and ethnic demographics with mass immigration can’t possibly lead to anything good. > > And why is “racist” for whites to consider their own best interests? What possible benefit can whites derive from giving up their status as the dominant majority? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/67 "2009-05-01T20:20:17Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > Logic 101 Exercise: identify which of Clothahump’s two statements falsifies the proposition in the question, and which does not. And of course, Nancarrow, the correct answer is: neither one. But that went sailing right over your pointy little head, didn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/68 "2009-05-01T21:02:27Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > _ **SIGH** _ War is peace. Slavery is freedom. Diversity is strength. But you still haven’t figured out that stupidity is not, actually, a virtue. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/69 "2009-05-01T21:05:34Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Your delusions aren’t my concern. The strength of the US is the way we synthesize the cultures of those who come here with what we already have. The fact that you find that to be creating a “banana republic” is telling. > > Frankly, if we were going for a “pure” American culture, we’d send everyone who can’t verify Native American ancestry back to 1620 back to their country of ultimate origin, raze every city, town and village, and leave things for those we stole it from in the first place. It’s the reduction ad absurdum of your favorite argument. Didn’t they come from somewhere else too? One of the theories has to do with a Siberia/Alaska land bridge. OK, that’s it. EVERYBODY out 😃 That includes you too, Lonesome Polecat. Pack your bags. You’re leaving with the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![MysteryFellow63427](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e4f/32.png) [@MysteryFellow63427](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MysteryFellow63427)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/70 "2009-05-02T00:41:25Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > Believing in Anthropogenic Global Warming is ridiculous, it’s like believing in evolution. Pithy one-liner, and I hope I’m not getting whooshed, but do you think the quality and quantity of data concerning global warming are of the same caliber of the fossil record and other data concerning evolution gathered under controlled conditions? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/71 "2009-05-02T00:52:50Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Not during the last Democratic administration, there wasn’t. Or from here on out, there apparently isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/72 "2009-05-02T00:55:55Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > If you don’t think most people are ashamed to ask for those things, you have no idea how people work. This is unmitigated bull ka-ka. There are PLENTY of people worldwide on their respective government’s dole that have no ambition to eliminate that dependence. Rather, many of them will do everything in their power to retain such benefits. Sorry, no cite, just an observation from another angle that explores “how people work”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/73 "2009-05-02T05:10:58Z")
> [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](#): > > Incredibly enough, Barack Obama believes all those things, too. Nah. Barack isn’t really a Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/74 "2009-05-02T06:49:42Z")
> [@](#): > > **Lonesome Polecat** : As for the “non-sequitur,” it’s a paraphrase of the Ingsoc slogans in Orwell’s 1984. It’s intent is to parody the absurd happy talk we keep hearing over and over again about how “diversity is our strength,” which you were parroting in your post. It was intended to show how simple-minded, shallow, and just plain intellectually dishonest such talk is. You can’t paraphrase and parody at the same time. That’s calling “misquoting.” The original Orwell quote was: > [@](#): > > War is peace. Slavery is freedom. Ignorance is strength. (Underscoring added.) And of course, _none_ of those make sense. It was indeed, as you said, simpleminded and shallow. But when you changed the original “Ignorance is strength” to “Diversity is strength” or “Diversity is our strength,” that is a different matter. That is not a simpleminded or shallow concept. There are no opposites to contrast and the stated idea is feasible. We may disagree that that is our greatest strength, and a few of the far right may claim that it is not a strength at all. But it is reasonable claim and just doesn’t fit here. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/75 "2009-05-02T08:07:50Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Nah. Barack isn’t really a Christian. As aren’t most people who claim to be. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/76 "2009-05-02T10:01:29Z")
> [@Spit](#): > > For the same reasons that people think we can have government welfare programs, government health services, government “bailouts”- Yet not lose any privacy, freedoms, or become a country of people unwilling to work. > > People are universally irrational. :rolleyes: Let me ask you. Are you more concerned about rationality or freedom? A maximally rational society is not a maximally ungoverned society nor is either especially tied to work-ethic or privacy. So why should I as a rationalist care if you lose some privacy, freedom, or productivity, as long as it serves rationally desirable ends? Why should a libertarian care about privacy or productivity so much that he fears losing any of either? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/77 "2009-05-02T10:06:55Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > Sadly, there are a LOT of people who think JUST like you. Fact is, there is a mile and a foot between NEEDING help from time to time and having the ‘help’ be your only and ever source of familial income. No one should feel shame about needing a hand UP, but accepting a constant hand OUT is another story. Fine. I’ll support abolishing welfare if you support abolishing moneylending. Why should rich people get to collect a constant tax from others? > [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Right. When I somehow find myself engaging with these types of people, I cut through all the high-minded sciencey elitist crap and get to the point. So let’s just agree that man-caused global warming is a liberal conspiracy invented by Al Gore in order to take our SUVees, this means we should pollute the crap out of the planet because…? _Because then Algore would win, and [Mel Gibson]He’ll never take our FREEEEDOOMMM!![/Mel Gibson]_ These are the self-proclaimed rationalists, devoid of sentiment & utterly logical, mind. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/78 "2009-05-02T10:15:47Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I have an excellent grasp of the English language. As for schooling, I have a B.A. in journalism with a minor in English. Ergo, not history, nor even economics or sociology, where it’s at least sad when someone is a maniac or crackpot. No, the two “humanities” fields where _it’s completely unremarkable_ to be a complete ignoramus about societal reality & still get a degree. Unimpressive. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/79 "2009-05-02T10:20:28Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Fine. I’ll support abolishing welfare if you support abolishing moneylending. Why should rich people get to collect a constant tax from others? To be fair, this is a lie. I’m not giving up my support of welfare, in the form of a universal negative income tax, for any such thing. But I find it amusing that the work ethic is only for the unlucky. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713/80 "2009-05-02T10:49:02Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I’ll support abolishing welfare if you support abolishing moneylending. Why should rich people get to collect a constant tax from others? What does “moneylending” have to do with anything? It is my opinion welfare \*should \*be abolished. I believe it is morally wrong to forcibly take property from one person and give it to another person for their own, personal use. You can rationalize it all you want… and it will still be wrong in my book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-beliefs/494713.md?page=5)