# Conservative groups spend up to $1bn a year to fight action on climate change **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 23, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029 "2013-12-23T19:32:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/41 "2013-12-24T17:53:35Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > True or false: a billion is a thousand millions. Not the point, but you knew it already. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/42 "2013-12-24T17:59:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not the point, but you knew it already. It is EXACTLY the point in response to anyone who says, “Frankly, who cares if it is a billion or a million.” I can only imagine the apoplexy with which you would greet anyone on the climate change denier side who got caught mixing up “million” and “billion” and responded thusly. I was fooled by you for a long time. Now I see you clearly. You do a really good job of waving the “Science, first, only, and always,” flag. But here you slipped up, and revealed that your real agenda is “Science, as long as it supports my preferred outcome; otherwise, fuck it.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/43 "2013-12-24T18:01:34Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Science should study both sides, fairly and without drama. Or just maybe, it’s not science. Learn the history and the experiments done to confirm this after more that 100 years of research. > **[The Discovery of Global Warming \[Excerpt\]](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/discovery-of-global-warming/)** > > The basic physics of climate change have been known for more than a century, but it is in recent decades that the fundamental science of global warming has solidified > [@watchwolf49](#): > > One billion dollars only keep Bank of America afloat for 2 hours. Totally chump change compared to the cost of moving everyone who lives below 50 feet elevation (New York, London, Los Angeles … all underwater someday). > > Most of these quotes are from commercial media … what are they selling? It is funny what they did sold. > **[1962 oil company ad boasts about ability to melt glaciers](https://boingboing.net/2010/08/15/1962-oil-company-ad.html)** > > EACH DAY HUMBLE SUPPLIES ENOUGH ENERGY TO MELT 7 MILLION TONS OF GLACIER! This giant glacier has remained unmelted for centuries. Yet, the petroleum energy Humble supplies- if converted into… Curiously then the commercial press told us that during the previous “pause:” of the 60-70’s that we should expect an ice age, never-mind that a super majority of scientific published papers then reported that warming was coming, they were correct yet another bit of evidence that demonstrated that indeed climate science is science. [http://ossfoundation.us/projects/environment/global-warming/myths/global-cooling](http://ossfoundation.us/projects/environment/global-warming/myths/global-cooling) ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/44 "2013-12-24T18:13:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > True or false: a billion is a thousand millions. Both. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/45 "2013-12-24T18:14:20Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I say it’s Orbital Forcing that causes Global Warming, which just happens to allow more CO2 into the atmosphere … has this been proved wrong? If it’s science, it has to be able to be proved wrong, otherwise it’s just philosophy. Wasn’t there a recent Nobel Prize given for evidence that the Big Bang Theory isn’t quite right? Or are you recommending we never ever try to show Relativity as being not exactly perfect? Orbital forcing is a factor, but not the main one, currently it is not the item driving the current increase in global warming. > **[Paleoclimatology | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)](https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/products/paleoclimatology)** > > NCEI manages the world's largest archive of climate and paleoclimatology data. Our mission is to preserve and make this data and information available in order to understand and model environmental variability on an interannual to millennial time... > [@](#): > > What is The Milankovitch Theory? The Milankovitch or astronomical theory of climate change is an explanation for changes in the seasons which result from changes in the earth’s orbit around the sun. The theory is named for Serbian astronomer Milutin Milankovitch, who calculated the slow changes in the earth’s orbit by careful measurements of the position of the stars, and through equations using the gravitational pull of other planets and stars. He determined that the earth “wobbles” in its orbit. The earth’s “tilt” is what causes seasons, and changes in the tilt of the earth change the strength of the seasons. The seasons can also be accentuated or modified by the eccentricity (degree of roundness) of the orbital path around the sun, and the precession effect, the position of the solstices in the annual orbit. > > What does The Milankovitch Theory say about future climate change? > Orbital changes occur over thousands of years, and the climate system may also take thousands of years to respond to orbital forcing. Theory suggests that the primary driver of ice ages is the total summer radiation received in northern latitude zones where major ice sheets have formed in the past, near 65 degrees north. Past ice ages correlate well to 65N summer insolation (Imbrie 1982). Astronomical calculations show that 65N summer insolation should increase gradually over the next 25,000 years, and that no 65N summer insolation declines sufficient to cause an ice age are expected in the next 50,000 - 100,000 years ( Hollan 2000, Berger 2002). And you are showing your ignorance to others, I guess you did swallow the idea from another poster that places like Skeptical Science are a bad thing to check, unfortunately what you show here is not only ignorance of the subject but ignorance on what should be a reliable source. As even conservative scientists like Barry Bickmore report, Skeptical science has to be seen as a resource to check what in heck scientists are basing their ideas. > **[Milankovitch Cycles](https://skepticalscience.com/Milankovitch.html)** > > This post is intended to serve as a supplement to SteveBrown’s series on the Last Interglacial, beginning here. In essence, there are lots of doubts on how the orbital forcing alone would work to warm the earth. > [@watchwolf49](#): > > Neigh-saying is part of the scientific process, Look at the Standard model, where does a fuckton fit in. Do we ignore the evidence or rework our Standard Model? > > Disclaimer: If curbing CO2 emission also curbs pollution in general, then I’m all for it Again, it really looks silly when you ignore \*\*also \*\* (yes, that is double ignorance there) that the neigh saying was done for more than 100 years, scientists are more convinced now about us driving the current warming. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/46 "2013-12-24T18:18:06Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > It is EXACTLY the point in response to anyone who says, “Frankly, who cares if it is a billion or a million.” I can only imagine the apoplexy with which you would greet anyone on the climate change denier side who got caught mixing up “million” and “billion” and responded thusly. That is nice, I did not say that, pay attention. > [@Bricker](#): > > I was fooled by you for a long time. Now I see you clearly. You do a really good job of waving the “Science, first, only, and always,” flag. But here you slipped up, and revealed that your real agenda is “Science, as long as it supports my preferred outcome; otherwise, fuck it.” Nope, what you showed to all is clear, you do love to prop up straw-men to claim a stupid victory. That is the evidence that is clearly here for all to see. As it is the fact that you are doing your straw man to avoid dealing with the “not small potatoes” amounts that those organizations are using when paying for political advertisements and support for blind politicians that then lead… the blind. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/47 "2013-12-24T18:20:25Z")
For a second there, I was worried that Santa forgot to give **Bricker** his “liberal hypocrisy” opportunity. I’d best tidy up, Scarlett Johansson will be here any minute now… ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/48 "2013-12-24T18:34:51Z")
> [@Trion](#): > > Both. _sigh_ True or false: a billion is not less than a thousand millions. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/49 "2013-12-24T18:37:33Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Frankly, who cares if it is a billion or a million. > [@Bricker](#): > > There is a huge difference. > > A billion is a thousand millions. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And again, IMHO this is dishonest too. Many of the ones funding them do know already that climate change is not the only reason for being, but they do not care much about what they do elsewhere, what counts for them is that the funding they provide allows those groups to give lots of time and effort to fellows that will vote just as they expect. To benefit their bottom line. > [@Bricker](#): > > True or false: a billion is a thousand millions. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > Not the point, but you knew it already. > [@Bricker](#): > > It is EXACTLY the point in response to anyone who says, “Frankly, who cares if it is a billion or a million.” I can only imagine the apoplexy with which you would greet anyone on the climate change denier side who got caught mixing up “million” and “billion” and responded thusly. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > That is nice, I did not say that, pay attention. You didn’t say it. I didn’t SAY you said it. I responded to the guy who DID say it, and you stepped in to the conversation to say that it wasn’t the point. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/50 "2013-12-24T18:39:14Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I say it’s Orbital Forcing that causes Global Warming, which just happens to allow more CO2 into the atmosphere … has this been proved wrong? For the current warming? Yes. Very. > [@](#): > > Or are you recommending we never ever try to show Relativity as being not exactly perfect? Nobody is advocating that. I don’t know where you get this impression. Maybe by assuming that places like Heritage are genuine and honest in their complaints, which is more than a bit naive. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/51 "2013-12-24T18:41:05Z")
Hey guys, here’s a great idea. Let’s _not_ let **Brickhead** turn this into “The **Brickhead** Hair-Splitting Idiocy Show”. You know, just because he posts stupid bullshit doesn’t mean you have to respond. He’s a lying shitbag who will NEVER acknowledge that what he’s doing is beside the point, because he _already knows that_. ---
**Author:** ![Trion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ccd318/32.png) [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/52 "2013-12-24T18:45:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > _sigh_ > > True or false: a billion is not less than a thousand millions. True. But my answer was more fun. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/53 "2013-12-24T18:50:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > True or false: a billion is a thousand millions. To be fair, he professes to be a man of science, not a man of math. 😉 On the other hand, maybe his difficulty with the concepts “true” and “false”. ::shrug:: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/54 "2013-12-24T18:53:14Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > _sigh_ > > True or false: a billion is not less than a thousand millions. Again, you are just asking that to avoid dealing with what I really said, the OP is an exaggeration, but all that money does generate lots of influence thanks to the fellows those think thanks have, the problem here is that (and this is the real move that fools people like you) is that then they use that credit acquired elsewhere to add into the mix the real anti-science item: “Climate Science is a hoax, repeat with me my congress critter and vote accordingly” Seeing the liability and the effect the changes that are needed will affect groups like the fossil fuel companies their investments with those think thanks are indeed less than the billion from the report, but it is dishonest IMHO that the context is ignored, all that money is not used to fight climate change indeed, but all that money makes it easy to push for influence with lobbies, paid scientists, and dunderhead politicians in their pockets. I do not think all that is related to fight climate change as the OP reports, but it is no small change and this is not news. > **[Merchants of Doubt](https://www.merchantsofdoubt.org/)** > > How a Handful of Scientists Obscured the Truth on Issues from Tobacco Smoke to Global Warming ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/55 "2013-12-24T18:53:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > True or false: a billion is a thousand millions. [Depends on the scale.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milliard) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/56 "2013-12-24T18:57:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > To be fair, he professes to be a man of science, not a man of math. 😉 > > On the other hand, maybe his difficulty with the concepts “true” and “false”. ::shrug:: As usual you only demonstrate that you did not pay attention, the billion issue comes from an exaggeration of the OP, of course this is just about the fourth time I mention that. It seems that there is an early post Christmas sale on straw. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/57 "2013-12-24T19:01:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You didn’t say it. I didn’t SAY you said it. I responded to the guy who DID say it, and you stepped in to the conversation to say that it wasn’t the point. Again, you are only avoiding dealing then with what I did say, the billion issue was already granted on my second post before the \*\*Bricker \*\*show started, but is it more fun to you to claim that I was fooling you. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/58 "2013-12-24T19:06:02Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As usual you only demonstrate that you did not pay attention, the billion issue comes from an exaggeration of the OP, of course this is just about the fourth time I mention that. > > It seems that there is an early post Christmas sale on straw. 🙂 I applaud the holiday Riverdance you do in order to not answer Bricker’s very simple and straightforward question. Michael Flatly would be impressed. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/59 "2013-12-24T19:09:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I applaud the holiday Riverdance you do in order to not answer Bricker’s very simple and straightforward question. Michael Flatly would be impressed. Again, it was already pre-replied by me in an early post, and no, \*\*Bricker \*\*should deal with the issue that I pointed out, not one that I was not pressing about, he and you are avoiding the real issue and the ones doing the real tap dancing. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029/60 "2013-12-24T19:31:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Again, it was already pre-replied by me in an early post, and no, \*\*Bricker \*\*should deal with the issue that I pointed out, not one that I was not pressing about, he and you are avoiding the real issue and the ones doing the real tap dancing. “Pre-replied”?!!! That’s some funny shit right there. Thanks for the laugh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-groups-spend-up-to-1bn-a-year-to-fight-action-on-climate-change/677029.md?page=4)