# Conservative Hatred for Europe **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 22, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555 "2004-01-22T01:39:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/101 "2004-01-25T10:53:56Z")
Found one for you, **Pepsi Classic**! [Ben Shapiro](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/benshapiro/bs20030528.shtml) on the same site as the delightful Ms Coulter, slagging Europe off for liking politically amoral movies, rather than the wholesome morality of _Bruce Almighty_ :rolleyes:: > [@](#): > > Europe is loaded with cynicism. Europe is a continent ravaged by two world wars, plagued by appeasers and dictators, and immersed in socialism. Europeans lost the will to live the moral life long ago, and it shows in their foreign policy as much as it does in their movies. That’s pretty mean I think - maybe in the realms of “hatred”? ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/102 "2004-01-25T11:16:34Z")
“Policy” in the singular ? Europe has at last 30 foreign policies; every country has it’s own - call me old fashioned but I believe that’s the way these things work, even with the US. They’re often but not always similar and sometimes diametrically opposed (Iraq). And while the EU as an administrative body has a commissioner responsible for foreign policy objectives, it has no mandate or power – in relation to foreign policy all sovereign (nation) resides outside the ambit of, for example, the EU. Indeed the US has at least as big a say as any single European nation (in what collective action a part of Europe could take - as per Kosovo) because of its role in NATO and/or as a permanent member (veto empowered) on the UN Security Council. I don’t get this argument at all ? Is it about France/Germany/several others not doing as its told when the empire wanted to conduct this Iraqi war of aggression ? ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/103 "2004-01-25T13:49:00Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > This, in a nutshell, is why many Americans dislike Europeans (even though I know you’re an Aussie, **antechinus** ). > > Actually, it’s mostly just France. The general arrogance and belief that they are the superior culture in the world - something that everyone should aspire to. And it’s been that way for several hundred years now. Many Americans see it as Europeans (read: France) unable to let go and realize that they are no longer as influential as they used to be. Indeed, when many on the other side of the pond speak of “multilateralism” they essentially mean, “do what the French and Germans say” and is essentially a way for them to exert as much influence as possible. > /snip/ > Conservatives still like visiting France. What made you think I was referring to France? I was referring to protestant European countries like Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands. FYI, according to the study I cited, France is not as ‘modern’ as these countries. Gee some people sure have a thing about France. ---
**Author:** ![labmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f19dbf/32.png) [@labmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labmonkey)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/104 "2004-01-25T17:44:25Z")
> [@Pepsi Classic](#): > > Just one example: > > [http://www.townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/ac20011220.shtml](http://www.townhall.com/columnists/anncoulter/ac20011220.shtml) I actualy thought that was kind of funny. Does that make me a reactionary anti-franco bigot? When do I get my card? Is there a health plan? Seriously though, **Pepsi** , is that you’re evidece of the vast right wing conspiracy cunducted against EUer’s by the vile American righties? An Ann-freaking-Coulter essay? You guys in the aisle seats slay me. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/105 "2004-01-25T19:14:50Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Flying in the face of this conservative American desire for political conformity is the European tradition of tolerance of and working with people of different ideology. Lets see. Crete, Kosovo, Bosnia, Germany circa 1939,France late 18th century, and the Spanish Inquisition not to mention all the other religious conflicts. And what about the numerous notices in the windows of pubs and shops I encountered in England when I lived there in 1975 prohibiting van dwellers (read Roma) from entering. Having conversed with quite a few new Canadians from various parts of Europe with regard to their attitude towards the Gypsies, I’ll stack up what I know about the average conservative American tolerance for different ideologies against what I know about the average European any day. ---
**Author:** ![Sleipner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Sleipner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleipner)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/106 "2004-01-25T22:00:10Z")
Sorry for this… To all of you who think that a tax interval of 50-75% is ridicules. I want to say, yes it is, and I am part of such a system. This is what I pay here in Sweden, Social security tax 30% Employee’s fee 20% Basic Income tax 32% in the interval 0 – 24000$ A progressive tax from 24000$ (luckily? my salary isn’t that high) 12% tax on basic food. Almost 60% tax on gas. 25% tax for the rest. 30% interest tax. The list goes on forever…. My salary before tax 30000$ 30000_0.7_0.8\*0.68 = 11424$ 11424/30000 = 0.3808 1-0.3808 = 68% tax!!! And I haven’t yet paid my bills (tax) or bought any food (tax) or basic products (tax)… People have NO idea how much tax they are paying…. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/107 "2004-01-25T22:31:19Z")
> [@grienspace](#): > > And what about the numerous notices in the windows of pubs and shops I encountered in England when I lived there in 1975 prohibiting van dwellers (read Roma) from entering. That was absolutely disgusting, I agree, and just a few years before there were signs on boarding houses in London that read “No blacks, no Irish, no dogs”. Thankfully we have grown up since then, though there still is an awful lot of prejudice towards Roma still especially in Eastern Europe. I should add, however, that scarcely more than 10 years prior to this, you guys had seperate drinking fountains for blacks and whites in the South, and Rosa Parks was told to give up her seat for a white man - and the rectifying of this situation was opposed by (small c) white conservatives, so your “stacking up” seems to be on slightly shaky ground. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/108 "2004-01-25T22:41:57Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Thankfully we have grown up since then Really? [BBC NEWS | UK | England | Southern Counties | Gypsy effigies burnt on bonfire](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3222321.stm) ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/109 "2004-01-26T14:29:39Z")
Actually, you’ll still see signs in the UK letting Romani folk and Travellers know they’re not welcome. While you may sometimes find a blatent one they tend to be quite subtle so as not to draw the ire of the race relations people, but they’re still around. In Germany, pubs have developed a very clever way of keeping Sinti people out. On the menus outside the pub, they advertise that they sell horsemeat sausages and the like, regardless of if they do or not. The landlords have worked out that, in Romani culture, the horse is seen as being almost a sacred animal and that Romani folk won’t enter a place where horsemeat is sold. [Cite](http://errc.org/rr_wint1998/snap8.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/110 "2004-01-26T14:35:00Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Really? [BBC NEWS | UK | England | Southern Counties | Gypsy effigies burnt on bonfire](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3222321.stm) Nice selective pasting there… > [@jjimm](#): > > though there still is an awful lot of prejudice towards Roma ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/111 "2004-01-26T14:44:08Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > What made you think I was referring to France? I was referring to protestant European countries like Sweden, Norway and the Netherlands. FYI, according to the study I cited, France is not as ‘modern’ as these countries. > > Gee some people sure have a thing about France. I didn’t mean to imply that you were talking about France. I was talking about France. I just used your comment as a jumping off point. And I have no more ill feelings towards the French than I do towards any other group of people or government. They’re all just doing what they feel they need to do. I was just pointing out that many Americans don’t have any issue with any European country except France really. All those more “modern” countries have no ire directed at them from most conservatives, except those few shrill, lunatic demagogues. And even then, they’re usually using Europe as a euphamism for France and sometimes Germany and Belgium. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555/112 "2004-01-26T15:31:47Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Nice selective pasting there… Well, it seemed you were suggesting that the hatred of Roma has mostly died away in W Europe…which I claim is not the case. Given the Express had a headline last week about the ‘invasion’ of Roma from new EU members…? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-hatred-for-europe/225555.md?page=5)