Mr Kettle? Mr Pot on line 2.
(Not that I subscribe to this perception of the US, but I know many Europeans do.)
This is a characteristic of fanatics of any stripe. Liberals are just as capable of being xenophobic and closed minded as you stereotype conservatives as being. In my experience, the average liberal is much more likely to reject ideas that differ from their own and demonize those who hold those ideas. The fact that this thread exists in GD instead of the Pit is a good example of that.
Okay, I must be being whooshed here. One of the underlying principles of conservatism is pragmatism. All ideas must be examined, and the ones that work should be implemented, the ones that don’t are rejected. Liberalism is mindset of those who believe there is “one acceptable political orthodoxy.”
Again, totally untrue, and again, suggests to me that you are guilty of the intolerance that you accuse conservatives of having.
Why are there so many “Conservatives hate this and that” threads around here? Like this one, they never have a leg to stand on. The OPs are little more than rants. The affirmative replies are all from equally hateful dittoheads. Any well thought-out, articulate negative reply gets ignored or flammed over some minor point.
To attempt to answer the OP, conservatives don’t hate Europe. I’d like to see some cites that lead you to belive that they do. And don’t just parrot the standard attacks on Limbaugh, Coulter, Fox News, and the rest. I’ve never listened to his radio show, read her books, or watched Fox News, nor do I know any conservatives who do, but from what I’ve heard (mostly from liberals) their views are not representative of the conservative viewpoint in any way, shape, or form.
Come now. Who came up with “Freedom Fries”? All the anti-French venom of 2003 sprang from the French refusal to ask “how high?” when Bush said “jump”. Who angrily declared in his State of the Union speech that the US didn’t need a permission slip from the UN to go to war when it saw fit?
Dick Cheney made it quite clear to Secretary O’Neill: Divergent views are NOT welcome in the Bush cabinet. When questioning the rationale for yet another tax cut for the rich, O’Neill was told by Cheney that these cuts were due to the Republicans for winning the midterm elections. O’Neill’s better judgement on tax policy was no more welcome to Bush & Cheney than Powell’s better judgement on diplomacy.
From The American Conservative , no less.
…But the question remains: why are the neocons so mad at Europe? The anti-Semitism that is allegedly swamping the Continent cannot be the answer, except in the minds of the more loopy Zionists. Nor can Europe’s supposed envy of the United States…
If Bush does not go to war, he loses face (and therefore votes). But if he stands and fights he risks losing the support of the 60 percent of Americans who do not believe that he has made the case for war. Some of us are wondering, therefore, whether he might not continue to procrastinate and, after cutting a relatively bloodless (but profitable) deal in the Middle East, declare a famous diplomatic victory. It is that possibility that goes some way to explaining why the neocons hate Europe. They do not want diplomatic victories. They want military victories. Some of them have been lusting after a war with Iraq since Sept. 12. Now they fear that Europe—or at least European and Third World voices within the UN—will somehow snatch it from them…
Haha, nice comeback there jjimm.
As you people may or may not know I’m an American who has had a good bit of experience in Europe and with Europeans in general, and I think I could insert a few points in here as well. Conservative hatred for Europe is kind of a loaded question for great debates. It reminds me of a few of those doozies made by december back in the days. But as an unabashed Liberal (but not so liberal), I do remember there being a lot of French hatred for Europe. I suppose it was actually just the extreme wings of the party. A good example would be the boycott of french wine, etc. Its all pretty clear that there was some intense dislike of the French going on there. I would think that its not a “hatred” of Europe, more of a disinterest. People that can be inspired to demonize a certain group of people obviously don’t have much knowledge in said group of people, allowing someone else to fill in the blanks. Anyway, its pretty obvious that there is a large group of people in America who aren’t interested in Europe at all, because there is frankly a lot of America to be interested in, so why bother?
I remember having come back from Europe on time and talking with a typical Bush supporting conservative, and I was explaing to him where I lived, and the best description I could give him was that it is near Luxembourg. And he made a remark how it must suck to live in Luxembourg, considering how they had no national pride. It seems to me that people always need something to give their life meaning. Some people use national identity as only a small part. Others use it as a huge part of who they are. For these people, when America wins a victory on the battlefield, in a way it is a victory for them, because being an American is such a big deal for them. Not being able vicariously partake in those kinds of things seems to be a bummer, I suppose, but it actually better. Luxembourg, has an extremely high per capita GDP, so I would imagine they wouldn’t sweat not being a superpower. Americans like this that vicariously enjoy America’s hegemonic position in the world get mad at people who try to get in their way. But french bashing has had a longer history, so its more effective. I would say this goes the same way in France too. Too many people see france as a global player, and thus France gets forced into making moves that basically are for show.
It makes you wonder what would happen if America wouldn’t be so nationalist and started thinking about their own personal lives more and how it could be better. Why else do you think the guy in the trailer in Alabama is a bush supporter although Bush is against raising the minimum wage that he recieves and is against overtime pay? Because he gets a kick out of being an American, and with the help of Fox news he can be proud of it every day, and take a little credit for America. 911 really boosted this a lot, because so many people became much more proud to be Americans.
[Moderator Hat ON]
Demostylus, Yojimbo, take your tiff with Brutus to the Pit. You’ve all sufficiently hijacked this thread.
[Moderator Hat OFF]
If true, that reads like a pretty sad indictment of a large chunk of American society, ** Merkwurdigliebe ** – they’re not that sad, are they really ?
I’m still recovering from the thought Americans think they’re more free and have a superior culture . . . I think I need a seat . . .
Unbelievable…two pages for this disaster and nary a mod or a switch to another area (like maybe The Pit) in sight.
Originally I wrote a long reply to this ‘question’, even though I’m not a conservative, but decided in the end this OP was too stupid to answer. How do you answer something thats such a leading question? As I said, you could just as well ask the famous “Has the OP stopped beating his wife yet?” loaded bullshit question to the same effect.
The long and the short of it is: No, ‘conservatives’ (broad, amorphous catagory they are) don’t ‘hate’ (wtf does this mean anyway) ‘Europe’ (what the hell is ‘Europe’ anyway and how would any rational person hate such a disparate mob as ‘Europe’ is). Only the lunitic fringe element (who are completely clueless and totally uninformed…mostly of the flat earth variety who have never been outside their home town) types ‘hate’ ‘Europe’.
By and large conservatives (IMO from talking to them) have disagreements with PARTS of ‘Europe’ or with certain philosophies or politics in SOME of ‘Europe’…which is to be expected as they are on different sides of the political fence (in SOME cases). There are many folks that DISLIKE PARTS of ‘Europe’ (mostly France atm) for a variety of reasons…just as you will find plenty of folks in ‘Europe’ that dislike America (should quote America too, but at least America is one country, even if it IS many parts that make up the whole) atm. But hatred? Get a grip. There is no wide spread movement or attitude amongst ‘conservatives’ of hatred towards something as amorphous as ‘Europe’.
On and off for several years there has been a significant level of antipathy against France in the US…that is, with the French Government (and maybe even with some of the people for those of the US that had bad experiences traveling in France). But France doesn’t equate to Europe…not even in the minds of those stupid Americans. In addition, the on again off again love/hate relationship between America and France predate Bush by several decades at least. This is simply the latest round of mutual dislike. There are a LOT of reasons for this MUTUAL dislike, not simply ones parrotted back from some brainwashing by Bush and the Neocon gang.
In summary (can’t believe I’m even writing this much), for the most part, ‘Europe’ doesn’t even regularly get on the US radar screen, with a few notable exceptions (UK, France, Germany mostly). So, unless someone from the left hand foaming at the mouth club can bring forth some actual examples of some kind of systematic conservative ‘hatred’ of ‘Europe’, I don’t see what the debate is.
-XT
Yeah, I knew someone was going to call me on that, but I went with it anyway. Euros get annoyed when USers do it, USers get annoyed when Euros do it. It’s a mutual irritation, I think.
And, personally, I think you should go along with your fellow, um, continenters on it. A huge chunk of Americans do feel they have the superior culture. After all, you don’t see McPierre’s on every corner. Mmmmm…mass produced escargot. 
**
I thank London for illustrating my point quite nicely. Thank you, my good man. I knew your bigotry would come in handy some day.
This is probably true. I know I spend little time thinking about Europeans myself, though the thoughts do pass by when I speak to posters from over there on the message boards I visit, or I’m reading about a European country.
But it’s not just Europe. I spend a great deal more time thinking about Canada than I do places in the US like North Dakota. I’ve been to Canada, and I’m inclined to visit again, since it’s a mere three hours to the nearest providence. I’ve never been to North Dakota- it’s a 34 hour drive according to mapquest- and since I’ve never even met anyone from there, I doubt it’s a state I’ll ever visit. As long as people in North Dakota don’t end up on the news because en mass they’ve begun slaughtering babies to feed their dark lord, my thoughts are probably not going to visit that fine state any more often than they do now.
There are probably a lot of people not unlike myself who don’t tend to think a lot about places they’ve never been, and never will, as long as nothing too troubling is happening there. As long as WWIII doesn’t start, I’m fairly content to remain blissfully netural about the goings-on in places abroad. I’m sure that I’ll know when the feedings of dark lords begins in one of those places because it’ll be on the news, and there will be three or four great debates on it.
Is indifference hatred? I suppose some people might construe it as such.
Sorry I haven’t posted any cites yet of conservatives that show their views against Europe. I need to look them up. I will post them this weekend.
I see. It’s not bigotry to assert the claim, but it is bigotry to refute it.
Sounds about what I’d expect.
There’s a very long history of American distrust for Europe, and fear of getting entangled in its political, religious and racial feuds. It’s an oversimplification to ascribe that solely to “conservatives”.
Of course there are varying levels of resentment among some conservatives now based on political, moral and economic issues, but as Paul said: "I don’t see Americans as spending a great deal of time even thinking about Europe. I so see Europeans spending a lot of ink thinking about America.
The level of obsession with American “hegemony” and perceptions about generalized fiendish U.S. skulduggery coming from Europe is far greater than anything in the reverse direction. We have many other more important things to think about.
How right you are. It not as if anything like this ever happened:
What you’d expect from who? Those inferior Americans? Glad I could fulfill the expectations your bigotry gives you.
Now, some clarifications from you please.
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Where did I assert that Americans have a superior culture?
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Where did I assert that Americans who believe other cultures and countries are inferior are not bigots?
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How did you refute it? (Hint: snide comments lacking in any sort of thought aren’t refutations.)
I just wanted to point out that the reason for our separation from Europe was based upon what the colonists percieved as crushing taxes with no benefit to anyone in the colonies. I think that it’s because of that that we are so resistant to tax increases to this day, because even the idiot survivalists can remember hearing in high school that “taxation without representation is tyranny”, so taxation in general is seen to be a bad thing. That’s not even to mention that we see few real benefits from the tax dollars we DO pay. Take Social Security for example. It’s about as close as we come to true socialism as practiced in some European countries, and not only can nobody afford to live on the monthly Social Security payout, but it is eventually going to result in massive tax hikes in the future. That is one of the big reasons why “conservatives”, and Americans in general, are not too hip to social programs, because they become out-of-control entitlement programs.
I’m not saying we’re perfect, but I think that I’d rather deal with things the way they are instead of paying out 50-75% of my annual income in taxes.
Ah yes, one incident proves a pattern. :rolleyes:
Here’s one for you - how much attention is being paid to the US elections in foreign countries at this time?
How much attention does the general US public pay to European or Australian elections. I’m willing to be not as much. I remember Mexican elections tended to garner a lot of paper space, but that was probably because I grew up in southern California. Outside of that, not much.
In Ireland and the UK, an awful lot.
It could, of course, be something that the average US citizen shouldn’t be particularly proud of, not paying attention to elections in other countries. I would have thought that would be seen as a progressive think, attempting to keep abrest with, even discuss, the politics of another country.
And who actually pays 75% tax?
Cheers.
Where exactly will you pay out 75% in tax, and under what conditions?