# Conservative London Mayor quashes anti-gay bus ads **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 17, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039 "2012-04-17T14:03:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/1 "2012-04-17T14:03:23Z")
Anyone pondering the difference between UK and US conservatives might want to consider [this story](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/12/anti-gay-adverts-boris-johnson): > [@](#): > > The mayor of London, Boris Johnson, intervened to prevent a Christian advertising campaign from promoting the idea that gay people can be converted to heterosexuality. > > […] > > Johnson, who contacted the Guardian to announce he was stopping the adverts within two hours of their contents becoming public, said: “London is one of the most tolerant cities in the world and intolerant of intolerance. It is clearly offensive to suggest that being gay is an illness that someone recovers from and I am not prepared to have that suggestion driven around London on our buses.” Now bear in mind that Boris is a member of the Conservative (large C) Party AND is currently running for re-election. Can you imagine a Republican saying something like that in an election year? Admittedly Londoners are a cosmopolitan lot, plus we’re expecting a few million tourists in a few months for the Olympics and I doubt Boris wants to deal with the potential international bad publicity but still, it’s a refreshing viewpoint to come from our very own Upper Class Twit. What I also find amusing is the reaction of the Labour candidate and lifetime demagogue Ken Livingstone, desperate for something to be outraged about: > [@](#): > > His main rival in next month’s mayoral election, Ken Livingstone, said Johnson should never have allowed the adverts to be booked. “London is going backwards under a Tory leadership that should have made these advertisements impossible.” So despite the ads getting blocked before they went out, Ken’s view is that Boris should have blocked them even earlier. Damn you, Boris, for not going back in time to prevent this! And then there’s the Liberal Democrat mayoral candidate, Brian Paddick, who said: > [@](#): > > From personal experience as a gay Christian, I can tell you that it’s much better to be out than in. We should be celebrating the diversity for which London is known, not denigrating it. Yes, a gay Christian former policeman is in the running for the job (although he’s turning into a perennial candidate, this being his third run at it). I freaking love London. I don’t have a particular debate unless you want to talk about the ability of the mayor’s office to veto such things, but given the intersection of electoral politics, fundamentalist religion and homosexuality this seemed like the inevitable place to put it. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/2 "2012-04-17T14:16:55Z")
And it is the Conservative Government that is bringing in Gay Marriage despite the bleating and wailing of Anglican and Catholic leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/3 "2012-04-17T14:25:21Z")
Do you people walk on your hands and eat with your butts too? ---
**Author:** ![gracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8e7dd6/32.png) [@gracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gracer)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/4 "2012-04-17T14:26:50Z")
Ha, when I first read this article I was just drafting an extremely angry email to the TFL. I was all irate and ready to accuse them of all manner of evils. I’m glad Boris sorted it all, but I was left with a whole lot of pent-up anger 😉 Might just have to find some other poor unwitting bigot to unleash it all on! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/5 "2012-04-17T14:33:08Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Do you people walk on your hands and eat with your butts too? You’ll also note that one of the people saying that the ads \*\*shouldn’t \*\*be banned is the chief executive of Stonewall. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/6 "2012-04-17T14:52:27Z")
I’m conflicted here. While I don’t support the concept of “curing” gay people, isn’t there a free speech issue involved, too? The article doesn’t really address that. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/7 "2012-04-17T14:59:09Z")
Yes, but the previous Labour government criminalised speech inciting [racial and religious hatred](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_and_Religious_Hatred_Act_2006), so it’d look a little awkward for a Labour candidate to come to the defence of homophobic speech. We in the UK don’t have an entrenched constitution with a bill of rights, the nearest proxies are the Universal Declaration, European conventions and the Magna Carta. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/8 "2012-04-17T15:02:52Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m conflicted here. While I don’t support the concept of “curing” gay people, isn’t there a free speech issue involved, too? The article doesn’t really address that. I agree-what is their problem with the 1st Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/9 "2012-04-17T15:10:51Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > We in the UK don’t have an entrenched constitution with a bill of rights, the nearest proxies are the Universal Declaration, European conventions and the Magna Carta. True enough. And I suppose TfL gets to decide what goes on London buses, but this strikes me as…capricious. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/10 "2012-04-17T15:14:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m conflicted here. While I don’t support the concept of “curing” gay people, isn’t there a free speech issue involved, too? The article doesn’t really address that. In no country in the world does free speech actually mean the right to say whatever, to whoever, in any circumstance. And given the history, I’d argue that something implying the “curing” of homosexuality should come under hate speech. In the US, there might be tolerance of many anti-gay messages, simply because it is a popular viewpoint, but reverse the message to “we can make you gay” and it would probably fall foul of obscenity rules or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/11 "2012-04-17T15:15:44Z")
From time to time, the DC Metro runs ads on one side or another of controversial political or social issues. It’s always taken the [position](http://transportationnation.org/2012/03/02/metro-wont-take-down-go-to-hell-barack-subway-ad-despite-congressmans-objections/) that courts have held that transit agencies are not permitted to refuse such ads. Congress [once](http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/rightsandfreedoms/a/mjadsupheld.htm) attached a rider to a bill that forbade transit systems from accepting ads for marijuana reform, but that restriction was struck down. ---
**Author:** ![Hogfather65](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7bcc69/32.png) [@Hogfather65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hogfather65)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/12 "2012-04-17T15:19:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I agree-what is their problem with the 1st Amendment? I think the problem is - 😃 WE DONT HAVE 1 IN TH UK 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/13 "2012-04-17T15:26:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I agree-what is their problem with the 1st Amendment? What leeway should countries have regarding fundamental human rights before those in other countries are allowed to consider it a morality issue? Does this same principle apply to same sex marriage and women’s rights? ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/14 "2012-04-17T15:40:45Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I don’t have a particular debate unless you want to talk about the ability of the mayor’s office to veto such things, but given the intersection of electoral politics, fundamentalist religion and homosexuality this seemed like the inevitable place to put it. Can you furnish me with a cite to the times when anti-gay ads graced American city buses? Because the only difference between the US and UK that this thread really exemplifies is how facile an understanding most Brits have of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/15 "2012-04-17T15:42:56Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > In no country in the world does free speech actually mean the right to say whatever, to whoever, in any circumstance. > > And given the history, I’d argue that something implying the “curing” of homosexuality should come under hate speech. > > In the US, there might be tolerance of many anti-gay messages, simply because it is a popular viewpoint, but reverse the message to “we can make you gay” and it would probably fall foul of obscenity rules or something like that. Quite. We don’t allow Nazi’s to promulgate their hatred or Islamists to incite hatred of gays either. There are free speech concerns but looking at how the 1st Amendement has worked to allow Corporations to buy even more political influence than they have already I’m much happier with the more pragmatic British approach. The people who wanted the ads are perfectly free to raise a legal challenge and people prosecuted under hate speech legislation get their day in court all the way up to the European Court of Human Rights if they want. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/16 "2012-04-17T15:45:06Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Can you furnish me with a cite to the times when anti-gay ads graced American city busses? The issue isn’t so much that buses can’t have ethical standards, it’s that the government can intervene to ban something that passed the company’s guidelines. I’m aware that free speech isn’t consequence free speech. However, those consequences should not be coming from government. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/17 "2012-04-17T15:45:50Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > There are free speech concerns but looking at how the 1st Amendement has worked to allow Corporations to buy even more political influence than they have already I’m much happier with the more pragmatic British approach. Oh, burn. Call us when one of the chambers of your legislature _isn’t_ reserved for members of the Lucky Sperm Club. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/18 "2012-04-17T15:46:37Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Do you people walk on your hands and eat with your butts too? I’m not sure what thread you thought you were joining, but you need to keep these sorts of _non sequitur_ turds out of Great Debates. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/19 "2012-04-17T15:49:19Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > What leeway should countries have regarding fundamental human rights before those in other countries are allowed to consider it a morality issue? Does this same principle apply to same sex marriage and women’s rights? I _really_ didn’t think I’d need to add a 😉 to that one. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2012, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039/20 "2012-04-17T15:50:22Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Oh, burn. > > Call us when one of the chambers of your legislature _isn’t_ reserved for members of the Lucky Sperm Club. What chamber would that be? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/conservative-london-mayor-quashes-anti-gay-bus-ads/619039.md?page=2)